Pakistan v England Test series

[Fauxstralian]

1st Test at Multan
England fly out Friday, no warm up games & First Test starts Monday

Pakistan win the toss and bat on a green looking pitch
122/1 at lunchPakistan: 1 Saim Ayub, 2 Abdullah Shafique, 3 Shan Masood (capt), 4 Babar Azam, 5 Saud Shakeel, 6 Mohammad Rizwan (wk), 7 Salman Ali Agha, 8 Aamer Jamal, 9 Shaheen Afridi, 10 Naseem Shah, 11 Abrar Ahmed.England: 1 Zak Crawley, 2 Ben Duckett, 3 Ollie Pope (capt), 4 Joe Root, 5 Harry Brook, 6 Jamie Smith (wk), 7 Chris Woakes, 8 Gus Atkinson, 9 Brydon C Arse, 10 Jack Leach, 11 Shoaib Bashir

[Fauxstralian]

Umpire changes the ball after India A scratch it in match against Australia A & then reports Indian for abuse
Caught on stump cam telling the Indians they have tampered with the ball.
Cricket Australia make sure the senior tour goes ahead by saying the ball was replaced due to ‘deterioration’ & don’t suspend the dissenting Indian

Australia A win by 7 wickets due to unbeaten 80 by Nathan McSweeney 

[stewie griffin]

India whitewashed at home by New ZeaLOL 

No whining about doctored pitches, strangely 

[Fauxstralian]

Is there a player in county cricket to fill that role?
Not that a third opener would fit in with McCullums harum scarum BAZBALL nonsense 
Stokes interviewed post match said these 6 are Englands best 6 batsmen ( yes , he said batsmen so expect a suspension) so sounds like they will carry on to the first NZ Test which is a month away

[southbankbornnbred]

To those saying move Brook or Smith to #3 - they would probably struggle there in similar ways to Pope.

All of those guys are middle-order batsmen. They're not used to opening, where your job is (generally) to stick around and take the shine off the ball, so that it's easier for the middle order to play. England have blurred those lines a bit with so-called Bazball. But, in theory, the fundamentals of opening and the mindset required (usually taking on the opponent's best quicks when they are fresh) is very different to doing the Pietersen role, for example.

Moving middle-order batsmen up and down the order has been tried endlessly by England. Root used to be an opener, and has genuine maturity in his batting now, so he's an option. Or maybe you go with another opener and try to ensure your #1 #2 and #3 get the shine off the ball after 20 overs - so that Root, Brook, Smith etc can play their shots.

I know the team got fucked by their inabiity to play spin (another massive problem) in Pakistan, but most sides aren't going to play seven spinners against you.

[southbankbornnbred]

Only one way to find out. Root batted 3 in the first test here,  made 262 and we won the game. No idea why people seem to think he needs the protection and comfort of batting 4, he's more than good enough. 

Just bored of all these wacky selections to be frank. Like not taking lawrence on this tour because he failed this summer, as an opener. Like picking Somersets number two spinner as England's number 1, and him being predictably and comprehensively outbowled by Somersets number 1. Like Brydon Carse... who did well enough to be fair to him... a man who averages 34 in division 2 of the county championship on a green pitch at Durham,  having less of an impact than our best ever bowler had here two years ago. 

It's actually a credit to pope that its taken this long for him to be exposed. Never batted there before he did for England. He lasted longer than most of the others thrown in there for no reason. 

 

Yeah I think England have two options in trying to sort out the (still) problematic #3 spot. As you say, Root is England's best batsman, still, and now has the maturity to deal with the most difficult batting spot. He's been superb at #4, so I get it, but we have the likes of Brook etc., and we even have a strong batsman/wk down the order, so England could afford to move Root up.

The other option is to play a third opener - somebody who plays the role in county cricket - at #3 and not a middle-order batsman (which Pope, in all fairness to him, has always been). The theory being that, with England's Thunderbastard style, one of Duckett or Crawley (sometimes both) often goes early and the ball is still very hard, new and shiny by the time #3 comes out to bat. So perhaps it might be wise to play a third opener there, because they are used to those conditions/challenges. Pope has often effectively been asked to do the job of an opener, which he is not.

[stewie griffin]

Only one way to find out. Root batted 3 in the first test here,  made 262 and we won the game. No idea why people seem to think he needs the protection and comfort of batting 4, he's more than good enough. 

Just bored of all these wacky selections to be frank. Like not taking lawrence on this tour because he failed this summer, as an opener. Like picking Somersets number two spinner as England's number 1, and him being predictably and comprehensively outbowled by Somersets number 1. Like Brydon Carse... who did well enough to be fair to him... a man who averages 34 in division 2 of the county championship on a green pitch at Durham,  having less of an impact than our best ever bowler had here two years ago. 

It's actually a credit to pope that its taken this long for him to be exposed. Never batted there before he did for England. He lasted longer than most of the others thrown in there for no reason. 

[Full Rug]

I can absolutely guarantee you that if we moved Root to 3 and Pope to 4, we'd get slightly less out of Root, and exactly the same incompetence out of Pope.
 

[stewie griffin]

We've been shit for years. Haven't won an ashes since 2015, so will be minimally 10 years until we do. We've tried 15 people at 3 instead of having our 'best' player go there. Only one person is benefiting from it. 

Or we can keep doing the same thing and keep failing to win any meaningfully challenging series we play. 

[Come On You Irons]

You also don't continually sacrifice the careers of other players to accommodate one person. 

Jesus, even the world's biggest cսnt Steve SMITH had a bash at opening because his team needed him. I'm sure most people feel more comfortable at 4. It's easier. 

It's a bit bizarre of you to keep digging out England's leading Test run scorer and a player who averages over 50 in 149 Tests.

Pope is simply not good enough at Test level and should be dropped. It's as simple as that.

[stewie griffin]

You also don't continually sacrifice the careers of other players to accommodate one person. 

Jesus, even the world's biggest cսnt Steve SMITH had a bash at opening because his team needed him. I'm sure most people feel more comfortable at 4. It's easier. 

[Full Rug]

You do not move your best player (by an absolute distance) from the position he feels most comfortable. Root bats 4, everything else has to be built around him.

The side I suggested earlier, maybe swap the positions of Brook & Smith, is currently the best team that can consistently be put out. You can't factor in Mark Wood, he is too broken. I personally wouldn't have Crawley in ideally, but I'm not sure there are a glut of openers who are screaming to be picked.

A wild move would be to let Stokes open, just because there has to be a spot for the skipper, and give the Turtles to the other Ollie Robinson. I actually think a move up the order would do Stokes the world of good, and he could concentrate on building innings rather than trying to make a statement to the team with every ball he faces.

Stokes (c)
Duckett
Brook
Root
Smith
Cox
Robinson (wk)
Dawson
Carse
Woakes
Atkinson

That's a proper team, that batting line up is ridiculous.

[Fauxstralian]

Agree that for the balance of the side Root SHOULD bat 3

1st Test team v NZ
Crawley
Duckett
Root
Brook 
Pope
Smith
Stokes
Atkinson
Wood 
Leach
Anderson

[stewie griffin]

Ballance 
Compton
Westley
Vince
Ali
Stokes
Denly
Bairstow 
Hameed
Lawrence
Malan
Bell
Crawley
Pope

All pushed to bat at 3 so root doesn't have to. That's the problem. 

[Fauxstralian]

Possibly because of the obsession the Kiwis running England have with the Ashes
Crawley averaged 53 in the latest Ashes
Pope has played 10 Ashes Tests for an average of 15.7

Plus anyone involved with England looking for a contract renewal from Rob Key wouldn’t dream of suggesting Crawley be dropped

[stewie griffin]

Zak Crawley averages 31 from 91 test innings with 4 hundreds. So the real question is why the focus on pope?

[Fauxstralian]

Has Smith ever batted 3?

Dawson has had the form to play over the last few years but obviously not rated by McCullum etc & is 34 now
Feels to me that Woakes is being selected for overseas tours as if he wasn’t there would be embarrassing questions why he was allowed to play the summer when Anderson was sacked.
Guess NZ is the one overseas venue that might suit him. Almost as much as they would suit Anderson 
 

[happygilmore]

Shambles
Its hard to understand why Pope is so "in" with the selectors.

52 tests, averaging 33.74

.
Only 7 centuries in 92 test batting innings. 

[Full Rug]

Pope has been a problem for a long time, you can't have a number 3 that is an occasional feast, but mostly famine. I know he'd never batted 3 before, but I don't think it'd matter where he batted, he has very, very rarely ever looked 'in' to me, never been convinced regardless of where he's batted. You can't be that consistently shit and backed regardless. I'm pretty sure he's average over the last year is in the 20's, and that's with a ton chucked in.

It creates a bigger problem when your number 6 is also averaging in the 20's in recent times, but obviously Stokes has to play. I'd move him down to 7, I'd move Jamie Smith up to 3, and bring Jamie Cox in to take over the turtles. He moved to Essex to be first choice keeper, injury put a stop to that, but it gets him in the team and let's Smith concentrate fully on his batting.

I'd also fuck the current spinners off and go with Liam Dawson, he averaged 60 with the bat alone in the CC, and is easily on a par with any of those being picked bowling wise, with Ahmed backing him up. The team below would have the best 8, 9, 10 & 11 in world Cricket. All of them could be batting 8.

Crawley
Duckett
Smith
Root
Brook
Cox (wk)
Stokes (c)
Dawson
Carse
Woakes
Atkinson

[Fauxstralian]

Sajid Khan & Noman with 39 of the 40 England wickets in the 2nd & 3rd Tests

[Manuel]

Bring 'em home.

[Fauxstralian]

Pope looks shot to pieces 
Off to NZ at the end of November for 3 Tests on some moving wickets. Good luck with that POPEY

All gone to pieces since Stokes was rushed back
53 runs in 4 innings, no wickets
Lazy disinterested captaincy

[stewie griffin]

Embarrassing shit. 
Re.Pope, worth remembering that hethat never batted at 3 in his life until put there by England. The 15th person to be thrown there because our 'greatest' doesn't want to. 

[RM10]

Just like West Ham they fade and die

[Fauxstralian]

Great day for Pakistan
Turned it right round after being over 100 behind & 6 down
Pope does need a break, not sure who would bat 3 though 
Should be Root with Brook moving to 4 & Smith 5

Understand Warners REPREIVE despite retiring ( and offering his services!) is because Cricket Australia want him to be able to be captain of Sydney Thunder in the Big Bash for promotional ( ie money making ) purposes 
Seems hypocritical & hasn’t gone down well

Western Australia have won the last 3 domestic 50 over titles but have lost 3 of 4 matches & look out of it
Presume they used the WACA pitch used for the SHEFFIELD SHIELD match which WA won

[Jericho]

Meanwhile, down under - Cricket Australia have lifted the life time leadership ban on David Warner, not going down well apparently...

And Western Australia in a match earlier today bowled out for 53 - after being 52 for 2 - they went on to lose 8 wickets for 1 run, that being an extra - 6 batsMEN out for a duck...