How you end the last season is how you start the next one ...

[threesixty]

Over the years I've noticed that if a team keeps the same manager, generally the form they finished the last season in is the form they start the next one in.
Unless there are huge extenuating circumstances like injuries/losing key players or they buy some superstar player, the form will be the same. Pre-season seems to do absolutely nothing to change that. Pre-season seems to only be about fitness and conditioning of players. Nothing else.

Both Amorim and Potter have gone on to perform exactly as they did last season. 
It makes me wonder why people always say "give him a pre-season and a transfer window". It never seems to work.

What precedent was there for keeping Potter beyond last season?
What example were people drawing from to justify continuing with a manager with such a poor record and very few injuries as extenuating circumstances?

 

[northbankboy68]

Threesixty, this is so true!  The season Leicester won the title was preceded by the real threat of relegation until their last 10 games when Nigel Pearson pulled out all the stops.  Their form in the last 10 games was the best in the Prem.  He then promptly got sacked (I think possibly for his son's shenanigans on tour in Thailand) and Ranieri walked into a perfect situation.

[stubbo-admin]

Man U have to be the only other owners on a par with us for stupidity. We hire a bloke we apparently didn’t want that much and who is known to play a system we don’t have the personnel for (I.e. no serious consideration put to it) and then don’t give him the means to get in what we need. I get having cold feet given how last season went but there’s must have been some discussion about this before and after he came in. This is just having no long term strategy in place at the club that anyone is willing to actually stick to. Either hire a guy who plays a way suited to the squad you have OR put yourself into money where your mouth is, be prepared to put up with some short term pain but provide the person you hired with the means to get a squad that plays that way. And if he’s a dud well that’s on you anyway. 

Man U have done exactly the same with Amorim. Hired someone who had all his success playing a certain way without considering if it would work with the players already at the club. He’s not exactly going to turn them down. 

like here, their problems run far deeper than whatever the name on the manager’s door is. 

 

yes the clubs made the wrong decisions. I think what is baffling is the reason why they continue to stick with these decisions given the form both managers have displayed over the last 8-9 months, which is a hell of a long time in football.

It’s also disturbing that the people hiring these managers do not understand the technicalities of football at all. It’s a significant thing to change from a back 4 to a 3 in this league without the personnel to do it. How was that explained in the interview? If the coaches did explain how they were going to get it done how far along are they in the plan? Did they tell you they needed to get rid of x amount of players? Did you agree? Etc

It just shows you that without a serious DOF who understands the game just as well as the managers and the players you will get bullshitted in the interview room completely. I bet Tim wasn’t in the room for the Potter interview!

Worth remembering that Tim wanted Amorim.  We'd setup our youth teams to be playing 3 at the back (I believe from when Steidten joined).

My  understanding is that Steitden was doing the initial negotiations with Potter, hence the photo of them meeting in that hotel foyeur, when they are talking about 6 months with a break...but then he got taken off of it.

But either way, a move to a 3-at-the-back manager had seemingly been on the offing for a while (with the Lopetegui injunction not a planned move).

[threesixty]

Man U have to be the only other owners on a par with us for stupidity. We hire a bloke we apparently didn’t want that much and who is known to play a system we don’t have the personnel for (I.e. no serious consideration put to it) and then don’t give him the means to get in what we need. I get having cold feet given how last season went but there’s must have been some discussion about this before and after he came in. This is just having no long term strategy in place at the club that anyone is willing to actually stick to. Either hire a guy who plays a way suited to the squad you have OR put yourself into money where your mouth is, be prepared to put up with some short term pain but provide the person you hired with the means to get a squad that plays that way. And if he’s a dud well that’s on you anyway. 

Man U have done exactly the same with Amorim. Hired someone who had all his success playing a certain way without considering if it would work with the players already at the club. He’s not exactly going to turn them down. 

like here, their problems run far deeper than whatever the name on the manager’s door is. 

 

 

yes the clubs made the wrong decisions. I think what is baffling is the reason why they continue to stick with these decisions given the form both managers have displayed over the last 8-9 months, which is a hell of a long time in football.

It’s also disturbing that the people hiring these managers do not understand the technicalities of football at all. It’s a significant thing to change from a back 4 to a 3 in this league without the personnel to do it. How was that explained in the interview? If the coaches did explain how they were going to get it done how far along are they in the plan? Did they tell you they needed to get rid of x amount of players? Did you agree? Etc

It just shows you that without a serious DOF who understands the game just as well as the managers and the players you will get bullshitted in the interview room completely. I bet Tim wasn’t in the room for the Potter interview!

[El Scorchio]

Man U have to be the only other owners on a par with us for stupidity. We hire a bloke we apparently didn’t want that much and who is known to play a system we don’t have the personnel for (I.e. no serious consideration put to it) and then don’t give him the means to get in what we need. I get having cold feet given how last season went but there’s must have been some discussion about this before and after he came in. This is just having no long term strategy in place at the club that anyone is willing to actually stick to. Either hire a guy who plays a way suited to the squad you have OR put yourself into money where your mouth is, be prepared to put up with some short term pain but provide the person you hired with the means to get a squad that plays that way. And if he’s a dud well that’s on you anyway. 

Man U have done exactly the same with Amorim. Hired someone who had all his success playing a certain way without considering if it would work with the players already at the club. He’s not exactly going to turn them down. 

like here, their problems run far deeper than whatever the name on the manager’s door is. 

[threesixty]

Really????
Except Palace finished  the season before last smashing everyone including us then lost the first 5 games last season before going on to win FA cup
Now having a slow start to this season 

 

 

Didn’t they lose Olise? 

[XKhammer]

Really????
Except Palace finished  the season before last smashing everyone including us then lost the first 5 games last season before going on to win FA cup
Now having a slow start to this season 

[southbankbornnbred]

Over the years I've noticed that if a team keeps the same manager, generally the form they finished the last season in is the form they start the next one in.
Unless there are huge extenuating circumstances like injuries/losing key players or they buy some superstar player, the form will be the same. Pre-season seems to do absolutely nothing to change that. Pre-season seems to only be about fitness and conditioning of players. Nothing else.

Both Amorim and Potter have gone on to perform exactly as they did last season. 
It makes me wonder why people always say "give him a pre-season and a transfer window". It never seems to work.

What precedent was there for keeping Potter beyond last season?
What example were people drawing from to justify continuing with a manager with such a poor record and very few injuries as extenuating circumstances?




 

Agreed. The same was true with Moyes between seasons too. Nothing really dramatically changes during Pre-Season.

As for the continuation...the Club clearly wanted to shift A LOT of wages this Summer (and continue to do so). Potter is seemingly a patsy they hoped would work out, not well, but ok and who almost needs the Club more than the Club needs him, so will suck up whatever he's told.

Let's face it...if it was purely a footballing success decision, he wouldn't still be here. We wouldn't be the only Club in the league without football professionals (instead of Porn professionals) running the football operation.

Sullivan loves a manager that is desperate for the gig and needs him. It's a power play. Guys who trying to rebuild and are grateful. PTSD Potter is that guy. Screw up this gig (as looks likely) and his only route back to the Premier League will be going abroad first.

Agree with all of this. Except that Potter's next job will be in the Championship. Hopefully, not with us.

He's not a Premier League manager. As a Brummie, he'll end up doing the Birmingham, West Brom, Stoke merry-go-round. He'll probably do "OK" at one of them, and then some on here will wang on about how he was a talented manager all along. Probably after he's beaten a Sheffield Wed side consisting of four part-timers, three women, two Deliveroo riders, a Sunday League ringer...and Max Kilman on loan.

[stubbo-admin]

Over the years I've noticed that if a team keeps the same manager, generally the form they finished the last season in is the form they start the next one in.
Unless there are huge extenuating circumstances like injuries/losing key players or they buy some superstar player, the form will be the same. Pre-season seems to do absolutely nothing to change that. Pre-season seems to only be about fitness and conditioning of players. Nothing else.

Both Amorim and Potter have gone on to perform exactly as they did last season. 
It makes me wonder why people always say "give him a pre-season and a transfer window". It never seems to work.

What precedent was there for keeping Potter beyond last season?
What example were people drawing from to justify continuing with a manager with such a poor record and very few injuries as extenuating circumstances?


 

Agreed. The same was true with Moyes between seasons too. Nothing really dramatically changes during Pre-Season.

As for the continuation...the Club clearly wanted to shift A LOT of wages this Summer (and continue to do so). Potter is seemingly a patsy they hoped would work out, not well, but ok and who almost needs the Club more than the Club needs him, so will suck up whatever he's told.

Let's face it...if it was purely a footballing success decision, he wouldn't still be here. We wouldn't be the only Club in the league without football professionals (instead of Porn professionals) running the football operation.

Sullivan loves a manager that is desperate for the gig and needs him. It's a power play. Guys who trying to rebuild and are grateful. PTSD Potter is that guy. Screw up this gig (as looks likely) and his only route back to the Premier League will be going abroad first.