Moyes Out ( Released )

[Keep dreaming]

"Posted the same last year. Nothing has changed, except win don't win matches anymore. I'm fed up, we can do much better"

[swindon hammer]

"Ah Mikey Boy is getting upset because actual facts are proving his opinion is wrong. I will ask the question again Mikey and try to answer it this time. Why aren't clubs like us and smaller clubs similar to Wimbledon, Coventry, Norwich, Oxford & Luton not winning domestic cups anymore as frequently as they did in the 70s and 80s?"

[Takashi Miike]

"""Gonzo on YouTube is in my camp."" like fuck he is, gonzo's never done a video wanting moyes sacked piss off swindon, with your time machine comparisons. moyes hasn't got us near a domestic semi final and until he finishes higher in the league or wins a cup, he's not worthy of tying lyall's shoes let alone being spoke about near the same level"

[Sir Alf]

"Things need to improve in the way we play and as ironsofcanada 5:23 Fri Oct 28 says, there are some small signs that might mean Moyes is very slowly trying to transition to playing possession based football. I think Aguerd is key to it and always was. He is quick and can pass. With him and Kehrer in the defensive 4 or a ( 3 or 5) . But even if we were playing further up the pitch I question, even with an exceptional investment this summer, if we have all the pieces needed to be good at playing like say Brighton, Bin Dippers, Arsenal, Chelsea etc. who all keep the ball better than us and pass and move better than we do. We need better wing backs and another forward better than Antonio. We look like a team with an identity crisis that has been coached for 2 years to play counter attacking football, staying in shape and compact defensively. We are trying to change but Moyes is not going to be a revolutionary type. Perhaps its because of the European competitions that he has not had the time to drill / work with the players to push this transition further? Or does he just not know or believe in playing in a more expansive ( aka front foot ) and entertaining way? Lots of people believe the latter to be the case because he never had Everton playing that way? Then again, this is arguably the first time he has the players to change to this more possession based game. I simply don't know and have thought if he can keep us in Europe and out of the relegation places etc. I am happy to give him some time. The start this season has had us in those relegation places albeit its the first third of the season. That's what the issue has been for me and why you then start looking more closely at who he's picking and set up of the team. Without any obvious management candidates ( Poch at best but would we get him? ) and us getting points and wins one way or another ( some good fortune admittedly ) , Moyes is, for me, walking a bit of a tightrope. If he can continue to keep us in mid table ( might need a few more favours from VAR) and we see more changes to selections and that in turn leads to better performances and football then great. But things could easily go south and we find ourselves back in the bottom 6. A few things potentially beginning to turn for us and Moyes. Injuries, Aguerd coming back, Paqueta back soon, Cornet available soon. Not having European competition until March ? That's going to help. Hopefully we get to the WC without sinking down the table. But coming back in the New Year we hopefully see the likes of Soucek and Coufal and even Cresswell / Fabianski less as first 11 choices. It might mean dipping into the transfer market in January for a left wing back if Emerson is not the answer. Cresswell btw, has performed well but he would IMO be exposed for pace if we started playing a higher line. In short ( not my thing brevity) Moyes gets this season to show he can complete the transition or at least partially complete it because even if we are playing less on the counter from deep we will I think need another striker or midfielder that can actually finish chances because above all else that is our biggest problem these last 12 months."

[Side of Ham]

"Fact is Swindon, Wolves footballing success in the 50's will still be there for all to see and your way of recognising managerial success for Moyes won't......apart from his Charity Shield win with Manchester United......Lyall also got us to a European cup final playing against winning teams in their own respective countries, now you can play teams in Europe who got in by a default of a better team qualifying for a better European competition or even 'fairplay'."

[twoleftfeet]

Gonzo on YouTube is in my camp. The man speaks sense.

[swindon hammer]

"Mikey Boy, Wolves might have been successful and considered a big club in the 1950s but they certainly weren't considered that in 1980 when they won the league cup. At the time it was an upset. Yes you are correct that those cup wins by Luton, Coventry, Oxford, Norwich & Wimbledon were considered the greatest moment in their histories and what are the chances of that amount of clubs of that size winning a domestic cup in the next decade? Almost zero which again proves my point that the ""big clubs""ù now have a monopoly due to the financial difference on winning the domestic cups and it's harder to win one now than it was back in the 70s and 80s. To make the comparison what are the chances in the next 10 years of West Ham, Wolves, Bournemouth, Brentford, Fulham, QPR & Crystal Palace all winning a domestic cup? That's not knocking what we and those clubs achieved back then because it's still great and hard to win but the facts are there to prove it's harder to win a domestic cup in this era if you aren't a big 6 club due to the finance those clubs have."

[Manuel]

"Blimey, some are still coming up with the ''spoilt'' nonsense? You'd think we have gates of 12000 not 62000. There are 3 guarantees in life, death, taxes, and West Ham fans not being spoilt!"

[Takashi Miike]

"""So 7 out of the 20 cup winners in the 1980s were underdogs/not considered a big club."" wolves have won more first division titles than spurs, you haven't got a clue. the other teams you mentioned were arguably the greatest in the history of those respective clubs but again, you shit on that legacy in an attempt to defend your anti football hero"

[Eerie Descent]

"Swindon, snce he's been back, we've spent over £300mil on transfers. We have the future England captain in our squad, Italy's first choice striker, Brazil's first choice midfielder. And I'm watching us serve up some football as bad as anything I saw under Allardyce. That's not being spoilt. Moyes done well to get us up there in his first season, but last season he fucked up big time, and it's continued into this season. We've had a few good results of late, but fuck me we've been outrageously lucky, and we're still a grind to watch."

[fraser]

Nagel = Spoilt cսnt :-)

[Side of Ham]

"John Lyall was our manager for two of our three F.A. Cup wins....he got us to our highest ever league finish in the top tier when only the top three qualified for Europe.....he had us in Europe three times, one of those was a blanket ban for english clubs.......how anyone can compare a manager that has so far not added to the clubs honours list, not even as a runner up, to one that is clearly involved in the club having any major honours at all is a fucking numpty......even Alan Pardew is above Moyes on our honours list for his 'runners up' achievement in 2006. Until Moyes adds to that honours list he won't be remembered for anything he did for West Ham.....just that Community Shield win with Manchester united......"

[Nagel]

"If you're going to talk about the finance of the big clubs, you should recognise that Moyes has had a very expensively assembled squad at his disposal since he's been here. Lyall and most of our previous managers never had that. Regardless of inflationary prices it's only recently that we've competed at the upper end of the transfer market. The club has paid for a top 7 team, and out two top 7 finishes should be put in that perspective."

[swindon hammer]

"So how come in the 1980s alone the likes of West Ham, Wolves, Wimbledon, Coventry, Oxford, Luton & Norwich all won domestic cups then Mikey Boy? So 7 out of the 20 cup winners in the 1980s were underdogs/not considered a big club. Why does that rarely happen now? How come in the past 9 seasons only Leicester from outside the ""big clubs""ù have won a domestic cup. The other 17 winners have been between Man City, Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea & Arsenal. That suggests to me that unlike the 80s there is now a dominance due to the finance of the big clubs. Do you understand that Mikey Boy?"

[Takashi Miike]

"of course you're shitting on him, thinking this boring safety first cսnt is his equal. you're going about domestic cups like a minnow won one very year. go and have a look. spurs (2), man u (3), arsenal, liverpool (2) all won fans cups during his time as manager. liverpool also won nine (9) league cups while he was in charge, so your argument about it being easy back then is bollocks"

[ironsofcanada]

"Has will be in charge after the World Cup based on my result-based criteria (which means nothing like most everything else said on here) and probably in real life as well. Things do move very slowly with him but looking across 3 years the results are better than we have had in a while. The progress in play and results seem slightly on the upturn again. Getting our best 11 fit would be nice but that's football and hopefully as we get better passers of the ball intergrated, the style wil come (very slowly) Again trying to take a long view."

[swindon hammer]

"When did I ""shit""ù on our greatest manager Takashi? I said winning the cup was a great achievement. I was just putting in context that finishing in the top 7 in consecutive seasons was a great achievement and something that even our greatest manager never did. I also said winning a domestic cup for clubs like us was easier back then than it is now. Are you disagreeing with that fact?"

[Takashi Miike]

"I think it's far more 'spoilt' to shit on our greatest ever manager in defence of another manager who has yet to finish in a higher position in the top flight, and hasn't got to a cup final let alone win one"

[swindon hammer]

"Yes Lyall won something for the club which was a great achievement but let's not pretend it wasn't easier in those days for one of the ""lesser teams""ù to win a domestic cup. The finances between the ""big 5 or 6""ù and the rest wasn't so great back then which is why both domestic cups are now dominated by the likes of Chelsea, Man City, Liverpool & Arsenal etc. Gone are the days when you would regularly get a team such as us, Wimbledon, Coventry, Norwich, Wolves winning a domestic cup. It hardly ever happens now. And my point about the consecutive top 7 finishes stands. Unless you are one of the big clubs with a lot of finance it's very difficult to do that. Even back in the 80s under Lyall when there wasn't such a huge gap in finances we couldn't do it."

[fraser]

"You don't think we choked then? Just because they won it doesn't mean we didn't.. We just didn't turn up... Yeah because we've always underachieved, that means we're spoilt when we have two seasons when we finish in the top 7. Being 4th in the league in January and in a great position in Europe only to fall away because we had no players is your idea of being spoilt... We've not been spoilt since 80 and 81.."

[Takashi Miike]

why do you keep mentioning Lyall? he actually won something for the club

[swindon hammer]

"The fact that you thought we ""choked""ù a European semi final against the eventual winners actually does suggest you are spoilt. Not forgetting that 2 consecutive top 7 finishes in the top division is something even John Lyall never managed to do in his 15 years managing the club."

[fraser]

A 6th and 7th finish while choking in a semi final is spoilt... Sorry that's not really being spoilt is it..

[swindon hammer]

"""Nobody is screaming ""Moyes out""ù Isn't that exactly the reason why this thread and the title of it was started? I can live with the fact that some posters on here don't like the way Moyes approaches some games and there is no doubt that he's not fully getting the best out of some of our attacking players at the moment but the constant negativity on here before, during and after games and the insults are over the top. You had one poster basically saying that Moyes was a nasty racist human being the other day while it seems to be a reoccurring thing for others to call him a ""dour Jock cսnt""ù. It's fine to question him for not being more adventurous in games but personal insults like those for a guy that has lead us into Europe for 2 successive seasons is disrespectful and shows a lack of Intelligence imo. I think a section of our fanbase have become spoilt. Case in point there have been a few comments on here about the Europa Conference League being beneath us in some way which seems ridiculous when you consider we haven't been involved in proper European football in 20 years before last season. You only have see what it meant to Roma (A bigger club than us) and their fans winning it last season to see it's a competition worth winning."

[Side of Ham]

"I want any West Ham team now and in the future to have more possession of the ball, I want them to have attacking intent.....when Moyes started his second stint here he had the team harrying the opposition and once we got it there was a real intent to attack as we had the opposition often on the back foot. Now it's lethargic hanging back to hopefully nip the ball away from our goal to regularly see it pinged straight back our way this is due to our better attackers being isolated and trying often to make a pass through a few players seeing as we are not set up to be dangerous on the counter but wary to attack other than the front three. Even Bowen has one eye on tracking back ffs. This is not a sackable offence but it does invite another slump in form and frustration up top from our front players who are expected to polish a turd......"

[claret on my shirt]

"40 years of supporting us and in that time I have seen some dire performances but even so i am normally on the edge of my seat etc. This season is so damn boring it's unreal. Last night was horrendous and for Moyes to say we played well was laughable, 2nd half they clearly had the better chances. Look at the last 6 or 7 games and I'd say the only game were we looked good and exciting was the 2nd half against Liverpool. Bournemouth, Wolves, Southampton were hard watches. Every game we line up with 7 or 8 defensive minded players, start shockingly slow and struggle to create anything. At home to Bournemouth he had Soucek, Rice and Downes all starting, seriously it's fucking Bournemouth for god sake, we don't need three players just in front of the back 4 or sometimes 5. Just once try Scamacca and Antonio up front for more then 10 minutes for lords fucking sake. Play the dreadfully out of form Fornals in his normal position, he's not a left winger for ffs. Teach Coufal to cross a ball as well please. Its just boring to watch and until that changes Moyes will need to have us top 6 minimum with this dire brand of football to keep us on side!"