Moyes Out ( Released )

[Keep dreaming]

"Posted the same last year. Nothing has changed, except win don't win matches anymore. I'm fed up, we can do much better"

[the straw]

"I've just looked at the state of the Scottish PL table. Only 4 have a positive GD. Celtic +80 and Rangers +56. Hearts on +6 and Motherwell on +2. The team that finished 3rd, Aberdeen, had a GD of -4. That's mental and a shame. Scottish football used to be half decent. Not their fault, it's the PL money that's killed it. Now any decent Champ club can outbid everyone but the Old Firm for players. Cantwell has gone up there and looked like a world beater (although to be fair he looked a player a few seasons ago, just a total knobhead)."

[the straw]

southbankbornnbred 10:26 Mon Jun 5 Re: Moyes Out Allardyce would win a title with Celtic. ----------- Not saying it would or wouldn't happen... I've got absolutely no skin in the Rangers/Celtic thing at all. But that's one scenario i'd loved to have seen play out. To see Allardyce actually managing a team expected to win. It would be a great thing to see how it panned out either way.

[Manuel]

"It's pretty much been confirmed that Enrique put himself forward for the Spurs job but was knocked back. They were not interested in Potter or Rodgers either. It's not clear if they wanted Poch back or not. This Ange fella is meant to be the real deal, a very impressive individual, would not be at all surprised if he does well there, whatever 'well' is. Heard some stuff from Celtic fans and have been blown away by how impressive this fella is. As said, they have tried the elite managers with the last two and that didn't work out."

[southbankbornnbred]

"ED, Two quick things: A) He absolutely IS getting the job on the back of winning the title with Celtic. Because if he hadn't won it, given their enormous advantage in Scotland, there is no way on Earth he'd have been offered the job at Spurs. And he probably would have been sacked by Celtic. So, yes, of course he's getting the job in part for winning the title at Celtic. B) Spurs have done nowhere near the amount of due diligence on him that you think. Postecoglu was Spurs' third or fourth choice for the job. They fancied other managers far more than this guy, but several (including the guy at Feyenoord) turned them down. So they've had to rather rush their recruitment of the Aussie. You only have to look at the fact that they have offered him just a two-year contract to sense Spurs' nervousness in appointing him - irrespective of what they say. They didn't really want him, and it shows. He seems like a decent fella. But he is unproven at any respectable, competitive level. Now he's got one of the supposed 'Big Six' jobs - he will be expected to deliver a top six finish (because Spurs think that's what they are automatically). Everybody will find out soon enough if he's up to it. He may be. I have my doubts."

[The Ghost of Sven]

As an atheist I dont follow either of the two Scottish teams but have been keeping an eye on Postecoglou as a former manager of Australia. Qualified a fairly ordinary team to the 2014 & 2018 World Cups and won the Asian Cup in 2015. He resigned before the 2018 finals as he didnt think Football Australia had any ambition beyond just qualifying. I think we saw when he took over Celtic were a bit shit ... losing 2-6 to a Moyes team ... and he hasnt put a foot wrong in turning them around. 'Easy' i know in a 2 team league. Mentioned the other that he is 58 soon & who knows when another chance with a top half Premier league team will come again .... probably on some multiple (I read 3) of his current salary. I see he has now accepted a 2 year contract. I like him but as Tottenham manager I hope he is a dismal failure & relegates them

[Eerie Descent]

"Capitol Man 11:32 Mon Jun 5 Who has turned them down? Have you got some insider info? Firstly, we have no real idea who they've genuinely approached, but regardless, their last 2 managers have each individually won more trophies than West Ham United, so fuck knows what point you're trying to make. You're probably lost as this is a football thread."

[simon.s]

"I like Postecoglu, would have defo had him here. Could be the change of direction that they need. Shame, as I suppose I'll have to start disliking him now."

[Capitol Man]

"So you don't think they ended up with him having been turned down by all the ""big"" names then?"

[Eerie Descent]

"southbankbornnbred 10:23 Mon Jun 5 That is such an old, cliched, outdated way of looking at things. Maybe that's the journo in you? He's not getting the Spurs job on the back of winning the Scottish league ffs, they've obviously looked into him, his ethos, his charisma, the success he's had in certain areas given his situation. They've tried managers who have won everything there is to win, and it hasn't worked, has it? If your outdated way of looking at things was adhered to everywhere, the Brighton manager, Thomas Frank I assume you wouldn't want at West Ham either? Of course you would, because things are more nuanced the old claptrap you've said there."

[Stevethehammer]

"Personally I don't see the big hurrah surrounding him Are you seriously telling me that Spurs have sounded this guy out after winning the Scottish pub league and the Japanese league, both which are absolutely huge on the world stage. Sure he gets some players playing but the Scottish league is a glorified league 2, of course Celtic and Rangers are going to win pretty much every week, put a club like us in there and we would win the league every year. It's not a contest. He is coming to the biggest league in the world with some of the greatest players the game has to offer right now, if I was a yid I'd be really underwhelmed considering who is available right now and who has rejected them are bigger names with bigger cvs. To me this smacks of Levy getting in a yes man, someone who will be pinching himself everyday because he has a job in the best league in the world. More fool them I say."

[swindon hammer]

Although it's not a huge achievement to win trophies in Scotland as a Celtic manager the big positive with this guy seems to be that he knows the Asian market very well and has identified a number of good players from there that have been successful for them.

[southbankbornnbred]

Allardyce would win a title with Celtic. Avram Grant would probably win a title with Celtic. And he should have been sued under the Trades Descriptions Act.

[southbankbornnbred]

"ED - I haven't panned Postecoglu, as such (well, maybe a bit!): just pointed out that he's completely unproven in a proper league. Scotland is a one-horse shitshow. It really is. Rangers will close the gap with Celtic again soon, I'm sure. But financially, Celtic have been the only game in town because of Rangers' past issues. It gives the hoops a big advantage and, as we have seen, the title has effectively become a parade even for mediocre managers like Lennon. Postecoglu has won stuff in Australia, Japan and Scotland. Spurs is a HUGE step up for him. All I'm really saying is that nobody should judge him on what he's done in Scotland. Roeder would have won a title with Celtic, it really has been that easy for them for some time. Gerrard's rangers were an exception, not the norm. I'm pleased Spurs have appointed Postecoglu. Nothing against the guy (apart from his potato head), but he's unproven and it's a big risk for a Premier League club that pretends to be a big club."

[Jasnik]

Exactly glad you all saw where I was coming from... Ha

[Eerie Descent]

"Southbank, looks like you'll find out if you were right about panning Postecoglou. Few of us wanted him, you were adamant there's no way he should get a Prem gig."

[swindon hammer]

Gordon Strachan also won 3 league titles in a row as manager of Celtic.

[southbankbornnbred]

If he doesn't win a title at Celtic then he might as well give up. Neil Lennon won five. Five. Neil Fucking Lennon. I think my nan could win a title at Celtic. And she died two years ago.

[Jasnik]

Hopefully Moyes gets the Celtic job. European football again for him and seeing as he is a winner he bound to get first or second.

[Side of Ham]

"Those elements are all part of the step up, if we ever have real ambition and backing to do so......but we do have the main foundation and following to do it....just needs to be tapped into properly with no barrow boy influence...."

[swindon hammer]

"There is an element of them being paid more due to being on TV more and appearing in the Champions League and that has definitely benefited Chelsea & Man City over the past decade or two. With Arsenal though it's also to do with the fact that historically they are a bigger club/worldwide brand than us and even if they did drop out of the Champions League for a few seasons they would still be able to attract decent sponsorship. Same with Tottenham. We have always had an issue with being thought of as a glamorous club when it came to things like sponsorship. Even in the 80s when shirt sponsorship came in you had the big beer brands like Holsten and the electrical brands like JVC, Commodore and Sharp sponsoring 1st division teams. Who did we get? Avco Trust"

[goose]

There's an element of timing as well. Our last deal was likely negotiated before any European football. Regular European football will obviously improve whatever deal we get.

[El Scorchio]

"Yup, fair point and definitely agree success drives sales, but as you point out if we sell 2/3 what they do (for argument's sake) then we've done a pretty piss poor job still to only net 10% of their kit deal. We should be looking at at least 40-50%. Everton's is 10 million a season. (It appears ours may be 5 million rather than 3, though but still...) Umbro must be laughing all the way to the bank with us. Sponsors are a little bit of a different kettle of fish. Spurs have done a really good job with that to net more than Arsenal do albeit with one extra sponsor. Again we are left in the dirt and absolutely that champs league exposure massively inflates things but to make only 20% of what they do.... With retaining realistic expectations, I am sure we could still do somewhat better."

[RBshorty]

Leaving mid season ain't going too help Rodgers with the hard core up in Glasgow. They have long memories. And ain't too forgiving.

[goose]

Apparently spurs sell around 600k shirts globally and we sell about 400k. Then you've got all the training gear etc etc. They get paid more because they are on tv more and in the champions league. The shirts are basically a marketing tool as well as revenue driver.

[El Scorchio]

"Looking at those numbers, there's a huge disparity in kit deal and sponsorship. Kit deal is nuts. We shouldn't be getting only 10% of what spurs get. I know the makers will have data but there is NO WAY they sell that many more shirts. I suppose their and Arsenal's shirts are sold in many more sports shops. Success on the pitch will definitely change that (Who stocked Man City shirts 15 years ago?) but it feels like our commercial team (headed by the genius can do no wrong Apprentice advisor Brady?) are doing a bit of a lousy job in comparison. Be interesting to see this table for the whole of the PL and where we stack up. We should be getting at least three times what we currently are, in relation to just those two as a yardstick. Suppose it may depend on when various deals were signed but still..."