Moyes Out ( Released )

[Keep dreaming]

"Posted the same last year. Nothing has changed, except win don't win matches anymore. I'm fed up, we can do much better"

[BillyJenningsBoots]

Eerie... I'd argue that the 6th/7th place wasn't gained by Moyesball's low block as when Moyes returned we were pressing higher up the pitch and catching teams in possession... After Xmas 21/22 he reverted to his low block and since hen our performances have been abysmal. Not sure if the change was due to the players inability to maintain the high press any longer or what... But I agree for 2 years we have been rally poor something the pundits neatly avoid.

[Takashi Miike]

"""All these posters jumping on it now"" who are you talking about? what posters?"

[LeroysBoots]

"That Football 365 article is fantastic, nail right on head Should be circulated to all media outlets as well as the West ham boardroom"

[southbankbornnbred]

"Griff, I agree. Our form is massively dependent on Paqueta for all the reasons you explained. But let's be honest with ourselves as a wider group of fans: Sullivan doesn't care much about how we view our ""style""ù. He's looking primarily (and almost exclusively) at results and points. Like many, I'm of the view that watching a Moyes team is like watching paint dry. But Sullivan is just interested in whether it's a matt or gloss finish. If it's shiny ""enough""ù, he's happy."

[Dick Shaftsbury]

"Yeah, the problem with this style of football is that it can work sometimes, but by inviting all that pressure if one or two defenders have a bad day at the office you are literally fucked."

[Lee Trundle]

I'm a lot more confident that he'll be binned off than I was this time last year (when I thought the same). The only way I see him staying is if we win the Europa League. And there's no way that's happening. We'll get knocked out as soon as we play anyone half decent.

[Eerie Descent]

"This argument about style of football Vs results is completely warped. One of the main reasons I want the style of football to change (as well as not wanting to be bored to death) is it has a very low ceiling of gaining success. In this day and age, successful teams do not play with 10 men behind the ball. It can have moderate success, and can land you 6th in the Prem, but it can also land you in a relegation battle with the same squad with £100mil worth of players added to it, because it's a game of luck, essentially. Gambling on not conceding by having a 10 man defence, and hoping for a set piece, bit of magic or a slice of luck to score. Hence we can be 6th one minute, and then not win in 10. That's what happens when your style of football is based fundamentally on the percentages. It's why we beat Arsenal 0-2, but it could easily have been 8-2 had they finished a 3rd of the chances they had. We had 2 chances and scored them. And there is the rub. All these posters jumping on it now, and the odd journo doing a piece, it's exactly what I've been posting on here for 2 years ffs. Nothing has changed, we've been shit for a long time, and now without Paqueta and outrageous luck, we look like we wouldn't compete with most League 2 teams. He'll keep his job, Paqueta will come back, we'll pick up a few results, and people who don't know their football will just accept it once again. New contract, more of the same shit served up. Blinding."

[Percy Dalton]

"Why don't the useless Journo's ask Moyes ""David why do you think the club has shelved contract negotiations""?"

[muskie]

"https://www.football365.com/news/david-moyes-west-ham-media-fans-dinosaur Good post Roeder, that article deserves it's own thread."

[stewie griffin]

"""It's one of the most spectacular losses of form I've ever seen at West Ham - and we've seen some ups and downs"" i see it more simply. 8 games without Paqueta. 0 wins. 4 goals scored. I'm not saying Paqueta is Messi - but he's all there is to worry about, and is capable of turning draws into wins, and losses into draws - even with 25% of the ball. The opposition know this, so his presence in the team - even on an off day - creates room for others. If results are truly all that defines Moyes' future, I'd be extremely concerned that the club would be so short-sighted. Paqueta will return, results will improve, and then what? We offer this clown a new contract? When Paqueta leaves in the summer, we'll be fighting relegation next year if Moyes is still here. Nailed on. Worth noting that in the 20-defeat season last year, our results and performances only picked up when Paqueta did, and figured out what was required in the premier league."

[Alwaysaniron]

Takashi Miike 2:20 Mon Feb 19 Great post. Please forward this to every single media outlet out there. Let the pundits/Jounos read it and digest it. In fact somebody get hold of Sullifans personal email address and we can all send it to him hourly....

[Takashi Miike]

we've played pretty much the same the whole season. the only difference being that teams are now taking more chances against us. if it wasn't for areola in those early months of the season (in particular brighton/chelsea) we'd be fighting relegation

[brick_lane_batty_boy]

Takashi Miike 2:20 Mon Feb 19 Almost like he's just read this thread for the last 6 months! Nail hit firmly on the head

[southbankbornnbred]

"People can theorise about Moyes' style and ""watchability"" etc., and we can keep going around in circles on all of that. But the harsh reality, almost always, is that managerial longevity is determined primarily by results. And by any measurement, ours have fallen off a cliff since the away win at Arsenal. It's one of the most spectacular losses of form I've ever seen at West Ham - and we've seen some ups and downs. If we carry on into March without a win in 2024, he will probably be gone - regardless of all of the debates about his style, what he has or hasn't achieved etc. Results are everything, ultimately. His are fucking awful this year - almost as bad as they could be. He can't keep wanging on about past glories and how he thinks he's a ""winner"" when we have barely scored a goal since last year, let alone won games. The journalists who let him carp on about being a winner at press conferences should simply put one thing to him: ""But you haven't won a game in 2024, David. How long can that go on before you stop describing yourself in that way?"" We are plummeting fast. A great night in Prague cannot paper over the gap between how good Moyes thinks he is and the reality of our results."

[Takashi Miike]

"If David Moyes was Spanish would the coverage be so favourable? Would it balls By John Nicholson There has never been such a disparity between how a manager is seen and talked about in the print and broadcast media and how they're seen by the fans. To the media, if we are to believe them, David Moyes is a successful, defensive coach who upholds some of the best traditions of the game; to the fans he's a dinosaur who only knows how to play one way. The football is predictable and boring. Why is there this dichotomy? Both positions cannot be right. Well, David is Scottish and pundits and journalists may meet him in the course of life. Do they want the awkward silence that will be inevitable if they've spent months slagging the guy off? No, of course they don't. Better to be broadly positive. Moyes himself shows signs of being thin-skinned. In post-game interviews he bristles with unconvincing self-regard. Like someone who is not very good, insisting he is very good. We can't ignore a built-in pro-British media bias. If Moyes was Spanish would the coverage be so favourable? Would it balls. He shows no signs of understanding criticism. This utter bollocks about other managers being more exciting but he wins more was truly, whiney, desperate stuff. The fans' problem isn't that they've lost, it's the manner in which they played and lost. They want entertainment. That's all. No they don't want to be relegated, but that's not the only outcome if you play progressive, attacking, creative football. As I was saying the other week, because there is no hope of winning the league, your style of play matters more than ever. This has to be a two-way street. Moyes can't point to a league position or a European trophy in a competition in which they were financially dominant as sole justification for boring everyone. As usual he is painting the club as the underdog when it's the Alpha silverback. Their transfer net spend over the last five years is higher than Liverpool's. But that's Moyes all over. Inferiority complex. People do pay good money to see them and you owe them something other than quiet desperation in return for his exorbitant wages. But this can't be said in the print and broadcast media because it's awkward, so the pretence goes on. The gulf between fans and media gets ever wider. The bewilderment of fans at not having their views reflected continues to be portrayed as entitled fans who should be careful what they wish for. But that's arse-covering nonsense. West Ham are ninth, likely to finish a place or two lower. But there's nothing between ninth and 17th. It makes a few million quid difference. Fans would rather be 15th and playing goal-rich attacking football, even if it's losing football, than be ninth playing negative football, even if it's winning. This is the new reality, but Moyes doesn't show any signs of realising it. To him, league position is everything. It's not. He doesn't understand this and keeps coming out with self-aggrandising rubbish which looks and sounds very like the sort of thing someone who is insecure about himself and his position would do. Remember that guff about ""that's what I do, I win""ù. Yeah well how come you don't, son? Where was your winning mentality against the might of Nottingham Forest? You didn't look like a winner when you let in six versus Arsenal. Look at the Premier League form table. You can't say the things and expect no one to question their veracity. Except perhaps you can, because the media scrutiny is missing in action. It's a failure of profession to not point out Moyes' failings which at times is becoming so extreme that the gulf between appearance and reality is unsustainable. For Paul Merson to say ""that's not a David Moyes team""ù after yet another abject performance is a dereliction of duty. It abso-f***ing-lutely is a David Moyes team. It's always someone else's fault, never the precious David, it seems. When a team plays poorly and loses, it has to be at least something to do with the manager. Whether it's true or not, we are left feeling like we are having the wool pulled over our eyes, or at the very least having something sold to us as fact when it's fiction. The consequence of this is fans get even more angry and extreme in their criticism, feeling that a loser is being sold to them as a winner. Don't be careful what you wish for. Wish for better. It's your money making Moyes a multimillionaire, after all. You deserve some say, especially if everyone else is lying to themselves about him or are letting personal relationships get in the way of telling the truth. There's a reason this is his last big job. Everyone knows why, but there's silence where the commentariat should be."

[Sir Alf]

"yes in eseence, outside of the discussion around the idea that football is an entertainment, its progression that you would asume all clubs anywhere in the world are trying to achieve? I would give Moyes credit for achieving some progression, from perennial relegation candudates to European competition and improved league placiings. However, the league progression and associated football was imo ""2 steps forward then 1 step back""ù . 2 steps to Dec 2020, then 1 step back since and its also mirrored in the style, entertainment etc. Euro qualification is 2 steps forward but looking like 2 steps back this sesason For the investment in players progression has stalled and going bacwards. Not sustained in otyer words, hence time for change"

[RichyP]

"The idiots who are still backing Moyes and who trot out the 'you're not proper West Ham' 'You're a glory hunter' 'why don't you fuck off and support xxxx club' are that thick that they don't see that they are actually the glory hunters. They are the ones who are prioritising results/league position over the style of football. Then people who are saying actually no, winning is not the be all and end all, how we win is more important and if that means we win less games but enjoy the football a hell of a lot more then so be it. Personally i think its also a bit thick to suggests its one or the other. I see no reason with the investment we have made in the squad over the last few years why we can't still challenge for European spots in the league by playing a much better style of football. Villa, Brighton and Newcastle are all managing to do it and looks like Wolves are now in the mix as well."

[Roeder-nowhere]

This just sums it up perfectly https://www.football365.com/news/david-moyes-west-ham-media-fans-dinosaur

[Side of Ham]

"Football is about progression and this manager is about the only one in our history to be backed enough to make decent progression""¶..he hasn't""¶..it's why in the past we stuck with our managers because they were in the main not backed very well."

[brick_lane_batty_boy]

"With regard to Moyes appreciation - how far is it we have to go back ? Ok, the cup success is still recent. But in terms of the league? We finished 14th last year - six points above relegation - so how far are we to have to go back when he keeps referring to we've never had it so good? To be honest - in terms of football - I'd definitely say it's up there in terms of us never having had it so bad. Allardyce served his purpose and did what he was employed to do - much like Moyes - they got us out of the shit - by playing their brand of anti - football. When served up and yielding positive results - you may be able to just about stomach it - Not for me - but I can see the argument. Lets all be very clear though - all those citing us being in 6th place and still in Europe - when was the last time the league finished in Dec ? The season finishes in May - and I guarantee you now - we will never touch 6th again this season -I 'd bet my house on it. We'll get knocked out of the Europa League next round - and finish in the bottom half. Whilst having to consumer unwatchable football. Look forward West Ham - not backwards - Thank him for everything he has done - and move on - it's business, nothing personal. Listen to the fucking fans for once"

[lowlife]

"I also hope they are holding off until the summer, and it's all part of not giving Moyes any more money to spend on players that he will destroy. If the board are ""òconfident' of keeping Steidten there must be stuff happening that will assure him that Moyes will be gone soon or in the summer. Maybe wishful thinking from me, but this can't carry on."

[brick_lane_batty_boy]

"With regard to Moyes appreciation - how far is it we have to go back ? Ok, the cup success is still recent. But in terms of the league? We finished 14th last year - six points above relegation - so how far are we to have to go back when he keeps referring to we've never had it so good? To be honest - in terms of football - I'd definitely say it's up there in terms of us never having had it so bad. Allardyce served his purpose and did what he was employed to do - much like Moyes - they got us out of the shit - by playing their brand of anti - football. When served up and yielding positive results - you may be able to just about stomach it - Not for me - but I can see the argument. Lets all be very clear though - all those citing us being in 6th place and still in Europe - when was the last time the league finished in Dec ? The season finishes in May - and I guarantee you now - we will never touch 6th again this season -I 'd bet my house on it. We'll get knocked out of the Europa League next round - and finish in the bottom half. Whilst having to consumer unwatchable football. Look forward West Ham - not backwards - Thank him for everything he has done - and move on - it's business, nothing personal. Listen to the fucking fans for once"

[Lee Trundle]

"He'd be cheap as chips to sack now, Mike. It can't be that. I've no idea why, but I have a funny feeling we're in a good financial position compared to most clubs, at the moment. The fact we had the shittest transfer window on record makes me think it's dawned on them we need a lot of players in this summer, and they're holding off all the cash until then."

[Mike Oxsaw]

"It's always possible that Sullivan can't raise enough money to be able to sack Moyes. He does appear to love sailing close to the financial edge, so maybe such a sacking fucks his operational cash flow up."

[Fauxstralian]

Some media are turning Not a fan of Danny Murphy but he was right to compare our situation to Tottenham Conte had them 4th when he left and they were bored shitless but are happier with Postecoglou who has them ..... 5th As have said before the last time we heard CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR was in the dog days of Allardyce and got Bilic and Payet for the last Upton Park season. Look forward not back and 'remember the good results' is the talk of losers