Moyes Out ( Released )

[Keep dreaming]

"Posted the same last year. Nothing has changed, except win don't win matches anymore. I'm fed up, we can do much better"

[Russ of the BML]

"Sir Alf 6:35 Mon Mar 18 Good post. I mentioned this some time back. What we have now is a hybrid of two systems. An autocracy where Moyes rules and a more modern style where there is a coach, D of F and scouts. This has been allowed to happen through poor management by Sullivan. He has obviously avoided the awkward conversation with Moyes and has just allowed it to fester. It's not working properly and you do wonder why on earth Sullivan is allowing this hybrid system to be maintained on his watch."

[Willtell]

"Moyes or the next manager has to have a say on transfers. That's a given. But it can't be the last word and still allow the club to progress. Moyes promised a Red Bull method of buying players when young but it was bullshit from him. We can see that we have the oldest and smallest squad because Moyes loves PL experienced players like Sullivan likes PL experienced managers. It's because they don't know how else to judge them""¶"

[claypole]

"The treatment of Cornet, Vlasic, Downes, Kraal and maybe Ings would suggest Moyes didnt pick/want them. Moving forward this really needs resolving with a cohesive transfer strategy and a full squad to work with. I dont see a world where Moyes accepts having no involvement in recruitment."

[ludo21]

Regardless of photos on the plane I think it is generally accepted that those three were TS signings. Assuming that Paqueta will leave in the summer and we get £80m for him then I would hope that TS is given the money to spend wisely on just 2-3 decent signings. We shouldn't try to spread the 'transfer kitty' too broadly. I'd rather see just a couple of decent quality signings and then use the youngsters properly and absorb 3-4 of them into the squad. If Moyes has any input he will waste £50m on the two Mcs from Man Utd and a further £30m on Phillips.

[goose]

"""it is generally accepted (because of photos on planes and at signings etc) that Steidten's 3 signings for Moyes was Kudus, Mavropanos and Alvarez"" hahaha because he had a pic on a plane? have a day off."

[Sir Alf]

"Vlasic was another Moyes signing as was Zouma, Coufal and Soucek. The last 3 have been generally successful although Zouma will be worth peanuts at 29 due to fitness issues. So financially not great. Ings? Was he a Sullivan signing ? Anyway, I would conclude that Moyes recruitment has consisted of too many that just havent worked out and have cost the club a lot of money. We know its impossible to get every signing right but I would trust Steidten's data driven approach much more to Moyes ""golden gut""ù or the ""Moyes MOT""ù process which takes forever but largely gets it wrong on larger fee players history suggests. But it still comes down to the basic business good practice of having management aligned on strategy and operations ( implementation of strategy ). This equates to footballing philosophy and players to optimise the approach. You simply have to have Moyes and Steidten and owners aligned. ""Singing off the same hymn sheet""ù as it used to be called. They are not and until that changes our progress or advancement is highly unlikely. Sullivan and the board HAVE to choose Steidten and team or Moyes. Alternatively Moyes has to compromise or let go of recruitment. Again highly unlikely. Something has to change this summer whatever happens. If we win the Europa or qualify for Europe though, it might be a continuation of the same messy situation."

[Willtell]

"Manuel I'm not insisting any such thing as knowing who signed which players but it is fairly commonly accepted that Moyes has to approve every signing. We know from media reports that Steidten and Moyes have argued over players but it is generally accepted (because of photos on planes and at signings etc) that Steidten's 3 signings for Moyes was Kudus, Mavropanos and Alvarez all three of whom have fitted into being first choices. Mavropanos is getting there too. I am not ""ignoring"" Moyes successful signings but I am highlighting his failures which includes the likes of Cornet, Kehrer, Aguerd, Ings, Downes, Phillips (so far) and JWP who can't get into the team at the moment. Finally, stop addressing the poster to argue black is white when we all know that what I wrote is truer than most things written on WHO..."

[Manuel]

"Willtell - You are still insisting that you know who signed who then. Fuck me, you truly do have a high opinion of yourself,, and forever repeating your so called beliefs. Take a day off."

[onsideman]

"Not sure Mavropanos can be considered a runaway success, can he?"

[goose]

"to say that Moyes makes changes to keep players sweet is frankly ridiculous. all this nonsense about who signed what players continues to be just that - nonsense. JWP and Phillips were both signed while Steidten has been working here. our best players this season are Bowen, Emerson, Kudus, Paqueta, Areola and Alvarez. 4 of those were signed by Moyes. You cant pick the bad ones and ignore the good."

[Willtell]

"LeroysBoots 10:36 Tue Mar 19 Yes that's the way it has seemed to me for a while now as the appointment of Steidten (with Noble observing how it's done for future?) suggests the board have decided this is the way it needs to be run. I just don't think Moyes has realised it yet and Sullivan hasn't told him the truth. As Nagel says the appointment of Moyes junior was done 3 seasons ago so it's false news. Our directors watch games too and must hate the unambitious and dull foootball themselves. Recent Moyes signings of Cornet, Aguerd, Downes, Ings, JWP, Phillips and clearing out Fornals, Vlassic, Kral, Kehrer etc for less than Moyes paid won't go in his favour. On the other hand Steidten brought in Alvarez, Mavropanos, and Kudus - all the successes this season and where we really would have struggled without them..."

[Hammer and Pickle]

Moyes must be an absolute nightmare to work for.

[Nagel]

"Moyes' son joined the scouting team 3 years ago. To be fair to Moyes, he was the one trying to instigate a proper scouting, data and recruitment team at the club. Before that it seemed to be half the players we got in would be whoever the manager liked the look of and the rest would be Sullivan's ""trusted"" agent recommendations. One of the problems with Moyes is that he wants too much data. At Everton he used to want players scouted 50 times before he'd think about going for them. This is one of the reasons why he keeps going after the same players, and why he'd rather leave gaping holes in the squad than take a risk on someone he doesn't know inside out."

[LeroysBoots]

"Surely the very nature of more data analysts and scouts shows the club are prepping for a change, a change being driven by Steidten. The Moyes son thing was an appeasement, he will be gone once the new manager comes in I think it's nailed on Moyes is leaving"

[Willtell]

"I watched our 5-0 win against Freiburg again yesterday. Then I realised why Moyes made the changes he did against Villa. Because he did the same against Freiburg plus giving a debut to Earthy of course. And that was only in response to criticism for not blooding youngsters.. Moyes doesn't have an original thought in his body. He doesn't react to the way the game is going by making changes to improve or gain control of the game as Emery did for Villa. He makes changes to keep players sweet. Not fans""¶"

[Manuel]

"I think he might lose a bit of enthusiasm. Pity that he's away with Jamaica. Anyway, it was only tongue in cheek, he's no Van Basten, but he can be effective for us and prefer him to Bowen down the middle, who seems to have a ''quiet game'' every week."

[fraser]

"Manuel - he has been good, he was also good at the start of the season then fell off a cliff Is it fitness or does the enthusiasm go after a few games of not playing. Ridiculous though that the way our squad is unbalanced that having him in lessens Kudus who isnt as good by a long way on the left. He moved right late Sunday and looked much better"

[Manuel]

"Funny reading how much better we were with Antonio (last Thursday too) and how Emery had to make changes to nullify his threat? I thought he was totally finished, or hadn't even got started according to some on here?"

[,]

During the break in EPL season 22/23 for WC 22 Villa bought out Emery's contract with Villarreal. What an inspired move. Emery has done wonders with a squad that in terms of overall strength is much the same as ours but not as strong in depth as the title chasing echelon. He gets a level of performance from his team that is regularly greater than the sum of its parts. On Sunday Emery demonstrably outdid Moyes tactically demonstrating that he is a genuine top four CL level coach. Emery was the difference between the two sides yesterday not the players.

[Texas Iron]

"Key decisions for the board this summer""¶ Fully back Steidten ""¶Moyes""¶ ""¶or carry on with both and muddle along with mediocre boring displays and lose our best players and revert to prehistoric football""""¶."

[ludo21]

"Sir Alf... agree with that. Obviously there may be no truth in it but the fact that the papers today are saying that Moyes intends to pursue Maguire again this summer is just too depressing for words. Moyes in any capacity for next season, even with his veto removed, just won't work. TS could buy all the talent in the world and Moyes would put ten of them behind the ball each game."

[Hammer and Pickle]

The picture is really pretty clear - Emery put on a pacy winger at half time and Moyes lost his bottle. Love the acrobatics from the circus act trying to pretend Moyes couldn't have done better by simply asking Kudus to mark Zaniolo and keep going for the win.

[Sir Alf]

"We had essentially our best 11 out and IMO have hit our ceiling with the squad and manager, Look its a material improvement on where we were for countless seasons which was relegation struggles etc. but the squad is paper thin, generally slow and old. I guess a question to be answered by all of us including pundits, is whether we think to progress further ( top 6 regularly ) and be more assured of getting into Europe every season ( I don't think we will this season via the league or Europa), we need more possession and be able to get the ball more effectively via pressing? It doesn't necessarily mean tike-taka with 80% of the ball and going passing for passing sake, but do we need more of the ball and keep it better? Id say absolutely yes. Getting nearer 50% each game and dominating against more teams is critical to progressing. BUt that in turn will need variation to tactics in some games if not all? And IMO that necessitates 3 or 4 players with more speed because we struggle to get the ball and most opposing teams look collectively quicker, play at a higher tempo than us. So I'm thinking with or without Moyes, we have to hope Steidten and his team and their data see the problem with the squad, lack of pace. If Moyes stays, and retains veto on incoming players or gets to choose outside of Steiden and the team it begs the question why was Steidten, Max Hahn, his brother and a data analysts hired? The ideal is a coach who aligns 100% with Steidten and co's tactical philosophy but the 2nd best option is Moyes having his veto removed in his new contract. He may continue to not use new players or certainly not optimise their use but if they are of the quality of Kudus, Alvarez and even Mavropanos, to a lesser extent, he will eventually see playing them gets better results and like this season they eventually get in the team. The worst scenario is what we have now, With Moyes able to question or veto signings and also bring in his own choices because it will likely not resolve the glaring lack of youth and pace and will see him entrenching further with his Moyesball system."

[ludo21]

"Saw a stat that said we had 2 touches in their box in the second half until the 89 min. It is bleedin' obvious that if you sit back, try and keep 10 men behind the ball and relinquish possession then you are just inviting wave after wave of opposition attacks. It is also no surprise that the opposition will take at least one of those chances. It should certainly come as no surprise to Moyes because that is what he does week in week out. Yet again it doesn't work. One point does nothing for us... 3 points and we give ourselves a chance of qualifying for Europe via the league... the fact that Moyes appears to have given up on that at least raises some hope that the fucker has decided to do the decent thing and push off at the end of the season."

[Lee Trundle]

"Even if you think he got it right at the weekend with his subs, then there's a hell of lot of other occasions where you can criticise the time he's taken to make them, or it's been completely the wrong one to make. It's one of the most frustrating things about his management, I reckon."