Moyes Out ( Released )

[Keep dreaming]

"Posted the same last year. Nothing has changed, except win don't win matches anymore. I'm fed up, we can do much better"

[Russ of the BML]

"Willtell 6:40 Wed Mar 20 ""I think it must be a long term plan by Sullivan to ease his way out of daily involvement..."" Definately looks that way."

[Willtell]

"The revelation by C&H that Sullivan & Kretinski are willing to reduce their shareholdings to 25% each so that along with Gold's share sale, a new investor could buy 25% of West Ham. shows us all that the board's plan is to change the way WHU operates. With 3 x 25% shareholders and several smaller ones, in theory, we will become less reliant on Sullivan's interference. There would be no majority shareholder to make autocratic decisions any more. A DOF would be answerable to the board in that kind of set up. I think it must be a long term plan by Sullivan to ease his way out of daily involvement..."

[Russ of the BML]

Side of Ham 6:00 Wed Mar 20 ludo21 6:11 Wed Mar 20 Sir Alf 6:11 Wed Mar 20 100% agree with all.

[Sir Alf]

I think we all agree that we simply want Steidten to do the DOF job or role ( I think his title is Technical Director but hope its not Sullivan's interpretation of the role ( which fudges the whole point by allowing Moyes or Sully himself to bring in players too ) where recruitment respobsibility is spread across multiple people ? He may not exa success but give him the chance to do his job properly and not some half arsed Sullivan implentation of the role as that will likely see us struggle to get any better.

[ludo21]

"We all know Sullivan is a cretin but if he doesn't look at what Leverkusen are doing this season and think that Steidten should be given a chance to replicate that then he must be mad as well. He has done the difficult thing, getting TS in in the first place. Sullivan needs to now do everything in his power to facilitate that, which isn't difficult...remove all of the obstacles (himself and Moyes) and give TS free reign... it can't be any worse than what we have suffered for the last 20 years."

[Side of Ham]

"I just want Moyes to be replaced and that replacement to have Stiedten as the lead decision maker......I'm sick of Sullivans way of doing it, and Stiedten is more of a football expert. We need to be more optimistic with the direction we take....."

[Russ of the BML]

"ludo21 1:20 Wed Mar 20 I don't think fans dissing Steidten. What fans are saying is that, whilst he appears to have contributed positively, there does seem to be a some ""OTT light shines out if his arse"" type comments. That's not Steidten's fault. With Moyes seemingly reluctant to enagage with him on signings and being reticent to fully acknowledge the work he does, it does compromise him and all people have said, because of that its hard to actually properly judge him. In the Moyes Out question, Steidten has also become a bit of a Luke Skywalker figure to Moyes being Darth Vader and so, again, some people are perhaps giving him too much credit as it plays into their agenda. I wish Moyes would fuck off as I'd like to see Steidten operate in a heiarachy that collaborates properly. Until then, I won't get too excited."

[ludo21]

Steidten can be judged on his record... his last job was Leverkusen which has turned out okay.... I'm sure he is / was not the only one responsible for the success that they are having this year but I'm also sure he was a major contributory factor. Now we have fans dissing the man... unbelievable.

[Willtell]

"Yorkammer 8:25 Tue Mar 19 Yes I agree that we tend to give too much credit to Steidten and once he gets full control he may well disappoint. However, if a position hadn't been made for Steidten does anyone think Moyes and Sullivan would have come up with Kudus, Alvarez and Mavropanos between them? Moyes would most likely never have found them nor would he have convinced them to come to WH. We would have struggled this season worse than last season because Moyes is very flawed..."

[BRANDED]

I might join the Moyes out brigade. These European adventures are costing a fortune.

[fraser]

Tim Steidten claimed responsibility for Kudus and Alverez in that Sky Germany interview.

[factory seconds]

"Wanting to avoid risk in football is such a bizarre contradiction. Giving any sort of toss about football is an emotional gamble that you put into the pot every week. That's the point of it. There are loads of other ways you to spend a grand a year that won't run the risk of ruining your weekend, but that""s the bi polar manic depressive fun of it all."

[Side of Ham]

"I think the sorts of stuff this Yorkhammer posts is typically negative about West Ham, it's football the whole point of football is to be risk takers push the the opposition into mistakes or simply play through them by opening up your play. ""Be careful for what you wish for"" and 'Moyes IN' is the pessimistic outlook, the safety first outlook, the outlook of a broken supporter by West Ham's history.....which is in fact not that bad considering the non ambitious owners we've had bar the Icelandics."

[Gaffer58]

"Even if Moyes doesn't get the final say on transfers, if Steident brings in a player Moyes doesn't like he will just not play him."

[Takashi Miike]

"""and a profit on transfers?"" other than Rice, what profit are you talking about? he's cost the club money on almost every sale"

[Side of Ham]

Don't think Liverpool would have been sniffing if that were his outlook......nowt as grumpy as a Yorkshireman.....

[Yorkammer]

"Lots of wishful thinking that giving Steidten more control will improve the quality of football. In my experience, people only focus on what is required to meet their targets and get their bonus paid. Where will attacking and entertaining football sit in Steidten's objectives relative to league position, European qualification and a profit on transfers? If we assume Sullivan has not made entertainment a high priority for Moyes, will he for Steidten?"

[BillyJenningsBoots]

"As others have said this mess caused by Sullivan over who does the selection and final say over signings is effectively a timing issue... Moyes current contract appears to include final say, so bringing Steidten in is compromised. However once Moyes's contract runs out and no longer has the final say clause, he either signs it and no longer has a final say or he leaves and we get what Steidten and hopefully Sullivan wants ie a Director that defines the playing strategy, player recruitment etc and a new coach that applies it..."

[Nagel]

"I don't think it's so much about needing specialists or managers struggling to cope with doing it all, as it is about long term strategy and succession planning. In the days when managers would stay at their clubs for years and years there was less need for a separate person doing that role, because the manager cared about and thought about where the club would be in 3, 5, 10 years time. These days most PL coaches know that they'll be lucky to last more than a couple of years, so why should they care about developing younger players, or producing entertaining football for the fans? They're just desperately trying to keep their job for another week, month, year, or maybe do well enough to get a better offer elsewhere. That's why it needs to be someone free from those concerns who decides which player transfers will be better for the club in the long term. The coach needs to be one of the jigsaw pieces, not the one doing the puzzle all on their own."

[Sir Alf]

"The model you mention Cough probably works well if the Head Coach is aligned with the DOF on the style and tactics and hence type of player we scout and recruit. We do not know explicitly where Steidten's head is on this ( the whole philosophy thing ) but evidence from his previous clubs suggests its not Moyesball, low block, low possession, stay deep and keep the shape then look to a fast counter or set piece to get goals with a few chances :-) Its essential nay critical to get a coach who ""believes""ù in the style or footballing philosophy of the DOF. Moyes is not that man. No shame in that but he has to be prepared to part ways almost inevitably? However, Sullivan is not exactly an up front and honest bloke and gawd knows what he thinks. As mentioned, if a miracle occurs and we win the Europa or Moyes sees us qualified for Europe again, Sully will probably renew his contract with the same veto because Sully will care about how he is perceived by the media for not retaining his ""most successful manage rather than correcting the management structure that is essential imo for the longer term."

[Willtell]

"I think this is what happens in Europe too. It's all about having specialists. We are passing the era of a manager in overall control of all football matters. You only ever get one or two really good managers able to cope with it all. It's a different world now that the game's best players available to a club like WH are international signings on the way up and our youth team rather than from Moyes' pre-Covid notebook""¶"

[Far Cough]

"I'm not saying we should follow the American way of dealing with player transfers but it seems to work quite well, the manager who is called the head coach, does just that, coaching and tactics, player deals are dealt with someone else who has to make sure it doesn't affect the salary cap etc"

[Willtell]

"When Moyes said he had a contract waiting to be signed by him, I think it was ExWHUemployee who said that the contract has conditions. The media speculated that the conditions were that Moyes would no longer have the final say on signings. It would be logical that if Moyes won the Europa trophy and qualified us for Europe again the board wouldn't want to sack him. On the other hand they probably would only offer him a Head Coach role answerable to Steidten""¶"

[David L]

If Moyes stays we might have Maguire to look forward to still....

[Nagel]

"If it's true that Moyes has it in his contract that he has the final say on all transfers then that could explain why Sullivan is allowing this hybrid mess. Any other action could be construed as constructive dismissal, like Curbs sued the club for."