Lopetegui (sacked 8.1.2025)

[maverick180]

I was thoroughly looking forward to the start of this season

Was also prepared that things might take some time and wasn't expecting miracles over night What I didn't expect was a manager who after spending 6 weeks with the total dross he'd been left by Moyes would deem them fit to start in a premier league game And low and behold all of them played absolute shit

We're now 1 game in and none of our new players are any closer to bedding in or learning anything from their new team mates cos they barely spent a second on the pitch, half of them not at all I think it's gonna take somewhere between 6-10 games before we see the team anyone with an ounce of sense would play cos this bloke can't identify shit when he see's it I thought we was handed a miracle at half time when we went in level and low and behold he changed nothing I'm sure people are gonna make excuses for him and say it's too early to judge

But from what I've just seen today, this cսnt is David Moyes in a mission impossible mask

[Massive Attack]

I'm continuing to ignore all the noise that comes out via the Play-Dough Mansion regarding the threat of Lopetegui losing his job after the next 1, 2, block of 4, 20 games to save his job and smirk as he's still here. 

For what it's worth, I had another watch of the Wolves match again instead of being at the game and we actually played alright and nowhere near as bad as some said/hoped it would be afterwards. Wolves parked the Bus for long spells as we were in control for long periods of the game. Eventually scored 2 decent goals and almost another 2 well worked goals if only the div Kudus could look across a fucking offside line. And we could have had 1 or 2 more goals in top of that if not for their keeper playing well (similar thing happened at Leicester). 

Positive charactistics of our play under Lopetegui I've noticed so far:

- Team comfortable in possession
- Now producing regular incisive attacks by playing exciting 1 touch free-flowing Football 
- Creating a lot of chances most games (19 Wolves, 31 Leicester, 12 Arsenal, 15 Newcastle)
- It ain't a boring mind numbing watch anymore

Negative charactistics of our play under Lopetegui I've noticed so far:

- Discipline still needs addressing (Picking up too many yellows - Emerson now suspended next game for instance)
- Weak defensively that needs sorting but have seen more positive signs more recently, just not enough of it
- Not being clinical enough - Fuck knows what they're saying on the Training pitch as we miss too many opportunities that are acceptable 

Overall a work in progress but I definitely am seeing plenty of signs of improvement and the kind of style that's an entertaining watch. We also aint afraid of getting in the oppositions half to attack a lot. Very easy on the eye passages of play when it comes off. Once we find our shooting boots, we'll murder some Teams much like we did to Ipswich. If only we got Duran.....

[Alwaysaniron]

Sullivan does exactly what he wants. He's an arrogant/ignorant naccisistic clown.  
Bournemouth and Brighton are good sides who will carve through our midfield like butter if we don't tighten up.  I can see us losing on Monday (whcih will annoy me more than most matches as I live in Bournemouth).  I'm going but know I'll be fucking raging if we don't show up again.

[Snodders' Beard]

 He had been told he must this win most of a clutch of four games against Wolves, the Cherries, Brighton and Southampton.
 

Has that been confirmed anywhere? Ludicrous if Sullivan has moved the goalposts again whilst still expecting Potter or whoever to hang on whilst we give Lop enough rope to hang himself. Just make a decision.

[Mad Ferret]

Time to lock this boring ass thread.

[BillyJenningsBoots]

Fuck me, Moyes got all those points and all those European wins with a decimated squad. Fucking outstanding stuff! I didn’t realize he did so much with so little. Great stuff! Thanks Stubbo!

He was the one who systematically decimated it by letting players get old or leave without signing adequate replacements:

Cresswell, Antonio, Fornals, Benrahma, Kehrer, Zouma, Ogbonna, Coufal, Haller, Scammacca, Lanzini...to name a few.

He kept culling a couple each window, or watching a couple decline each season, until the squad was down to about 14 viable names. He didn't introduce the kids to the squad and get them playing. He didn't integrate new players so he had options.

A dinosaur manager from yesteryear who only cared about the first XI. Good fucking riddance 

Oh I get it, so everything is Moyes fault and nobody else’s. And your opinion of the squad being inadequate doesn’t ring true when you look at all the success his squad brought, However you’ve decided that it was all on Moyes…… Got it.

No one is saying its ALL Moyes's fault. Why is everything so black and white with you.. It was your suggestion it was ALL the fault of a badly managed January Transfer Window unfortunately implicates Moyes as he at that point still had a veto on transfers. However that said, we were poor all season, some lucky wins early on but generally performance wise it was awful and that was down to him.

His insistence on some of the players he wanted and refusal to buy a striker was the main cause of the disaster as reported by many of the usual channels, why should we beleive you over every other source? Plus you overplay his success 18 months of enjoyable counter attacking and 2 years of awful low block anti football which included a Conference Cup win which as everyone has said we were favourites from the start for and yet still tried to throw it away with his set up...

No one on here is with you... so give it up!

[Russ of the BML]

I am very surprised that Nutsin doesn't blame Moyes for last seasons January window. That is all. 

[goose]

When Moyes came back, he had the benefit of Declan Rice at the top of his game, Lanzini, Fornals and many others like Scamacca and Haller who he quickly alienated. If you rated him as a manager, maybe you need to look at what you expect from one at all.

You’re such a spaz.
Of course people rate him as a manager. You don’t manage that many PL games if you’re not good at your job.
First two seasons his record was really good, but then people started to work us out and he struggled to adapt. That’s football. In the end it was the right time to change.

Saying you don’t rate him is just dumb.

[Hammer and Pickle]

When Moyes came back, he had the benefit of Declan Rice at the top of his game, Lanzini, Fornals and many others like Scamacca and Haller who he quickly alienated. If you rated him as a manager, maybe you need to look at what you expect from one at all.

[Takashi Miike]

he means in life, the cսnt thinks he's won the lottery living in ultra left LaLa Land. he'll be on the beach later flexing his man tits

[goose]

After going so long without a sniff of success I get why winning is alien for you. As a perennial winner myself I can speak from experience. 

 

Come on then David Brent, tell us what you’ve “won”……..

[Massive Attack]

Geez, 'get a grip, go to bed, grow up, cut down on your profanity count'

[Manuel]

Try convincing Chelsea fans that when he would religiously fuck games up and he had over a billion worth of talent at his disposal! A pitiful 38% win rate is terrible. Both Pochettino and Maresca straight after him did a lot better with much of the same team and set-up. At least they gave him almost a full season to realise he was a fraud when making the step up, unlike Mr. Sack him after 8 matches..


 

Well obviously I couldn't give a fuck about those plastic cunts, but of course his record there was shit, but I don't think that means he will always be shit, it would hardly be the first time a manager has come back. Anyway, I've humoured you enough.

[Massive Attack]

Try convincing Chelsea fans that when he would religiously fuck games up and he had over a billion worth of talent at his disposal! A pitiful 38% win rate is terrible. Both Pochettino and Maresca straight after him did a lot better with much of the same team and set-up. At least they gave him almost a full season to realise he was a fraud when making the step up, unlike Mr. Sack him after 8 matches..

 

[Manuel]

Sure, I wouldn't be too excited about Potter, but I think he knows his onions and I miss not being able to connect to our manager. I watched a couple of Potters pressers when he was under pressure at Chelsea and he came across very well, clear and precise IMO, that will do me. And let's not forget he schooled Moyes pretty much every time we played Brighton.

[Massive Attack]

I can't stand Potters eye bags. cսnt looks like he ain't slept since the day he was born. It's a concern.

Granted Lopetegui has a blink rate faster than a adolescent boy trying to memorise everything they see from a porno for the wank bank, so maybe I shouldn't be too harsh.

[Manuel]

Well this has taken a turn, far too much to read though, but good to see a good old fashioned football debate on here.

I still hope Lop can turn it around, if not I'd be fine with Potter.

[Nutsin]

So blowing everything up and starting over from scratch is the only way forward for you, Got it. 

Yeah, I’m a bit more rational and I weigh up all the other contributing factors such as injuries, players out of form, FPP rules. Players that are available at a fair wage that will come play at West Ham etc etc. Every team has it’s good runs and not so good, Only City and Liverpool can claim a constant run of success.

After going so long without a sniff of success I get why winning is alien for you. As a perennial winner myself I can speak from experience. It’s better the devil you know than the devil you don’t. Nobody is perfect all the time and yes from time to time Squads have to be rebuilt. I remember the state of the squad when Moyes took over, Didn’t Miyes come in to the job under similar circumstances with a depleted squad and turn it all around? 

So JLo just beat Wolves( barely and luckily) and now you are all giddy again. Let’s see how cock sure you all are after the next result.




 

[stubbo-admin]

Fuck me, Moyes got all those points and all those European wins with a decimated squad. Fucking outstanding stuff! I didn’t realize he did so much with so little. Great stuff! Thanks Stubbo!

He was the one who systematically decimated it by letting players get old or leave without signing adequate replacements:

Cresswell, Antonio, Fornals, Benrahma, Kehrer, Zouma, Ogbonna, Coufal, Haller, Scammacca, Lanzini...to name a few.

He kept culling a couple each window, or watching a couple decline each season, until the squad was down to about 14 viable names. He didn't introduce the kids to the squad and get them playing. He didn't integrate new players so he had options.

A dinosaur manager from yesteryear who only cared about the first XI. Good fucking riddance 

Oh I get it, so everything is Moyes fault and nobody else’s. And your opinion of the squad being inadequate doesn’t ring true when you look at all the success his squad brought, However you’ve decided that it was all on Moyes…… Got it.

 

 

Nope. I'm not an 'all or nothing' kind of personality. I respect Moyes' first 24 months in charge and am sad that didn't continue and thought in that time we played some truly excellent counter attacking football before he morphed into a 'low block no matter the Oppo' approach.  But he did fail to bring youth talent into the first team. He did let players just slide into non relevance, and he was open about preferring a small squad, and then when we suffered for it did nothing about it. And he did dither in the transfer market, allowed the age of the squad to go up without renewal, and flogged the same players repeatedly. But he did win us a cup. Good and bad, but we're suffering for the bad now, big time.

[Sir Alf]

I think Massive its this paragraph that its hard to argue with:

“We did some things well tonight but we were again plagued by errors, lack of control, and horrendous pressing/transition defending throughout.“Though for different reasons, this win was much like the Man Utd one in that we faced a team struggling badly under massive pressure and only came away with three points thanks to Jarrod Bowen and a huge slice of accompanying luck (ridiculous misses, dubious decisions etc).“To perform so badly against such poor opposition should be the barometer by which the manager is assessed.“Not by results that are not at all reflective of the matches themselves nor the broader organisation/execution we’re seeing week in week out.”

Maybe its as simple as sticking with the selections he chose for the Newcastle game but suspect not as different teams play differently depending on whether its home or away too.  We found that when playing the same 11 against Arsenal where we could have conceded 6 or 7 first half.  

If Lop can turn it around great. I will be only too pleased to admit I was wrong but just not seeing any signs or consistency.  Think he has to play Todibo, think he has to play 4-3-3, think he has to play Paqueta deeper and maybe try Kudus centrally.  But we simply don't have the pace in central midfield or defence to play the very high line although AWB slipping back into the back 3 or 4 did show he maybe recognises it now.  Bournemouth best pressing team in the Prem,  not confident but he needs to get us pressing, being able to handle counters and pass a lot more accurately.  Does feel like we're putting off the inevitable but miracles can sometimes happen. Lets hope we're about to see one

[stubbo-admin]

This assessment by Analytics United pretty much sums up the status of Loppy's reign right now, pretty much spot on.  One decent performance at Newcastle and that after a couple of early misses by the Barcodes that could have seen us 2 down.









 

If that's essentially their 'Analysis', then it cofirms to me they're just Moyes loving dipsticks, which I suspected about them in the past. Often raving about Moyes but can't even give Lopetegui the proper credit for Newcastle. Another "in spite" load of bollocks. 

Their "misses" were Offsides, so they never would have counted. And we scored in the 10th minute by that useless cսnt Soucek again. 2-0 down??

I dont think that's true. There is no raving about Moyes. They were very positive pre season about Lopetegui and looking forward to Lopetegui bringing his style to the club.  But they look at the data associated to the performances more than anything as well as the situations in possession and out of possession that perform patterns. 

I think their analysis is good and generally balanced. Will be interesting to see if Potter ends up in the job, as they appear quite excited by a Potter appointment.  

They are unquestionably football data and tactics nerds though.

[Nutsin]

 

Struggling to see that.

I mean Moyes points hauls were:

Season 1 (half season, factored to full season) 40
Season 2: 65
Season 3: 56
Season 4: 40
Season 5: 52

So in his final two full seasons had an average of 46 points.  Across his entire tenure he averaged 50 points per season.  

Lopetegui arrived with a decimated squad of only about 10 viable outfield first team players, many of whom we're considered beyond it by most observers:

Emerson, Mavropanos, Coufal, Soucek, JWP, Alvarez, Paqueta, Bowen, Kudus, and Antonio.

Most observers considered that for upper first team success the only viable squad members were:

Areola, Emerson, Alvarez, Paqueta, Bowen and Kudus, with others being fillers at best.

So the 'investment' you describe was into a decimated squad (a squad being 25 players afterall) and with a net spend of about 100m acorss 9 players....barely averaging out at 10m per player.

I agree he's underperforming, mostly in terms of extracting cohesive team performances, but to suggest in a first season where trying to completely turn around a style of play that was entrenched, bed in half a new squad, and compete in the hardest league in the world, that he'd be expected to get 60 points is an insane perspective frankly.

What Moyes did in his first full season (the Covid ravaged balck swan of a season I might add) and to some extent in his second season (although really only up until Xmas) is without doubt some of the best times we've had.  But from Xmas on in his second full season he was frankly appalling from a league perspective, and saved only by the victory in the Conference League...which was great memories...but assesed in terms of opposition was the equivalent of facing Div 2/Div 1 teams all the way to the final, where you play a top level Championship side in the final.  Great memories, but looked at without the emotion....not a single game won in that tournament could you really pin your colours too as a 'great result' on a team vs team basis.

If as you suggest we are in a relegation battle, I agree with you 'Loser Lop' will have been an unmitigated disaster.  But as of now we don't show any signs of that.

But it would be more than reasonable to see success as matching Moyes' tenure points hall average (50) whilst making our football more easy on the eye by the end of it, and with the squad having been rebuilt to think that a reasonable challenge and improvement could be expected in his second season.

I don't think he's the right guy, but your 'success' narrative is, IMO, laughable.

Fuck me, Moyes got all those points and all those European wins with a decimated squad. Fucking outstanding stuff! I didn’t realize he did so much with so little. Great stuff! Thanks Stubbo!

He was the one who systematically decimated it by letting players get old or leave without signing adequate replacements:

Cresswell, Antonio, Fornals, Benrahma, Kehrer, Zouma, Ogbonna, Coufal, Haller, Scammacca, Lanzini...to name a few.

He kept culling a couple each window, or watching a couple decline each season, until the squad was down to about 14 viable names. He didn't introduce the kids to the squad and get them playing. He didn't integrate new players so he had options.

A dinosaur manager from yesteryear who only cared about the first XI. Good fucking riddance 

Oh I get it, so everything is Moyes fault and nobody else’s. And your opinion of the squad being inadequate doesn’t ring true when you look at all the success his squad brought, However you’ve decided that it was all on Moyes…… Got it.

[Massive Attack]

This assessment by Analytics United pretty much sums up the status of Loppy's reign right now, pretty much spot on.  One decent performance at Newcastle and that after a couple of early misses by the Barcodes that could have seen us 2 down.








 

If that's essentially their 'Analysis', then it cofirms to me they're just Moyes loving dipsticks, which I suspected about them in the past. Often raving about Moyes but can't even give Lopetegui the proper credit for Newcastle. Another "in spite" load of bollocks. 

Their "misses" were Offsides, so they never would have counted. And we scored in the 10th minute by that useless cսnt Soucek again. 2-0 down??

[Sir Alf]

This assessment by Analytics United pretty much sums up the status of Loppy's reign right now, pretty much spot on.  One decent performance at Newcastle and that after a couple of early misses by the Barcodes that could have seen us 2 down.

For the record, I would be pleased if Lop could turn it around but we simply do not have the players to do what I think he was attempting and now its just not clear what he's trying to do. High line or mid / low block, slow build up just like under Moyes.  In fact, we are playing just as we did under Moyes last season. Slow, pedestrian, relying on long diagonal or a set piece or individual brilliance but looking as solid as a piece of swiss cheese thru midfield and at the back.

Anyway, here's what they have to say:Lopetegui running out of friends at West HamHe had been told he must this win most of a clutch of four games against Wolves, the Cherries, Brighton and Southampton.But performances and clear signs of an identity and approach that fans enjoy – and which works – is a must too.The board were the only people who didn’t feel Lopetegui should be sacked after Leicester.Even they now accept the experience of watching the Hammers simply must improve – and quickly.Lopetegui is running out of friends, though, as an analyst used by West Ham’s own media team dismantles his tenure.The club’s official website publishes a regular feature from Hammers supporters Jack Elderton and Callum Goodall before games.The duo’s Analytics United previews offer fellow fans in-depth but accessible analysis of their team and its players on West Ham’s website.West Ham are very careful to make it clear “the views and opinions expressed in the articles are those of Analytics United and do not necessarily reflect the views opinions of West Ham United”.Most official football club sites are, understandably, highly sanitised with positive spin put on almost anything.Elderton has grown so fed up of what he’s seeing from Lopetegui and his side that he’s let rip on social media instead.Analyst used by West Ham’s own media team dismantles tenureThe Analytics United man says he is running out of energy to describe just how bad West Ham are under the Spaniard.“Pleased for the group who clearly wanted to win for Antonio but I am running out of energy to describe how bad we are this season,” Elderton said.“We did some things well tonight but we were again plagued by errors, lack of control, and horrendous pressing/transition defending throughout.“Though for different reasons, this win was much like the Man Utd one in that we faced a team struggling badly under massive pressure and only came away with three points thanks to Jarrod Bowen and a huge slice of accompanying luck (ridiculous misses, dubious decisions etc).“To perform so badly against such poor opposition should be the barometer by which the manager is assessed.“Not by results that are not at all reflective of the matches themselves nor the broader organisation/execution we’re seeing week in week out.”Elderton likely reflects how many West Ham fans are feeling right now.Supporters have been left conflicted by the board’s decision to stick by Lopetegui.Hammers fans clearly want to see their team win.But they feel it is merely delaying the inevitable and wasting a season
 

[stubbo-admin]

 

Well, given the outlay over the summer and the expectations following our years of success under Moyes, I would set a minimum points target of 60 as a measure of success (aka not being a 'loser').

 

Struggling to see that.

I mean Moyes points hauls were:

Season 1 (half season, factored to full season) 40
Season 2: 65
Season 3: 56
Season 4: 40
Season 5: 52

So in his final two full seasons had an average of 46 points.  Across his entire tenure he averaged 50 points per season.  

Lopetegui arrived with a decimated squad of only about 10 viable outfield first team players, many of whom we're considered beyond it by most observers:

Emerson, Mavropanos, Coufal, Soucek, JWP, Alvarez, Paqueta, Bowen, Kudus, and Antonio.

Most observers considered that for upper first team success the only viable squad members were:

Areola, Emerson, Alvarez, Paqueta, Bowen and Kudus, with others being fillers at best.

So the 'investment' you describe was into a decimated squad (a squad being 25 players afterall) and with a net spend of about 100m acorss 9 players....barely averaging out at 10m per player.

I agree he's underperforming, mostly in terms of extracting cohesive team performances, but to suggest in a first season where trying to completely turn around a style of play that was entrenched, bed in half a new squad, and compete in the hardest league in the world, that he'd be expected to get 60 points is an insane perspective frankly.

What Moyes did in his first full season (the Covid ravaged balck swan of a season I might add) and to some extent in his second season (although really only up until Xmas) is without doubt some of the best times we've had.  But from Xmas on in his second full season he was frankly appalling from a league perspective, and saved only by the victory in the Conference League...which was great memories...but assesed in terms of opposition was the equivalent of facing Div 2/Div 1 teams all the way to the final, where you play a top level Championship side in the final.  Great memories, but looked at without the emotion....not a single game won in that tournament could you really pin your colours too as a 'great result' on a team vs team basis.

If as you suggest we are in a relegation battle, I agree with you 'Loser Lop' will have been an unmitigated disaster.  But as of now we don't show any signs of that.

But it would be more than reasonable to see success as matching Moyes' tenure points hall average (50) whilst making our football more easy on the eye by the end of it, and with the squad having been rebuilt to think that a reasonable challenge and improvement could be expected in his second season.

I don't think he's the right guy, but your 'success' narrative is, IMO, laughable.

Fuck me, Moyes got all those points and all those European wins with a decimated squad. Fucking outstanding stuff! I didn’t realize he did so much with so little. Great stuff! Thanks Stubbo!

He was the one who systematically decimated it by letting players get old or leave without signing adequate replacements:

Cresswell, Antonio, Fornals, Benrahma, Kehrer, Zouma, Ogbonna, Coufal, Haller, Scammacca, Lanzini...to name a few.

He kept culling a couple each window, or watching a couple decline each season, until the squad was down to about 14 viable names. He didn't introduce the kids to the squad and get them playing. He didn't integrate new players so he had options.

A dinosaur manager from yesteryear who only cared about the first XI. Good fucking riddance 

[Massive Attack]

Ah the old £400m decimated squad.

Wasn’t our squad in the top 20 of the most expensive in Europe?

And it was "decimated" because he always chose to work with small Squads like a div because he wasn't capable as a manager to deal with too many egos and keep them in check. Thats why partly he was bombed out of Man Utd.