Lopetegui (sacked 8.1.2025)

[maverick180]

I was thoroughly looking forward to the start of this season

Was also prepared that things might take some time and wasn't expecting miracles over night What I didn't expect was a manager who after spending 6 weeks with the total dross he'd been left by Moyes would deem them fit to start in a premier league game And low and behold all of them played absolute shit

We're now 1 game in and none of our new players are any closer to bedding in or learning anything from their new team mates cos they barely spent a second on the pitch, half of them not at all I think it's gonna take somewhere between 6-10 games before we see the team anyone with an ounce of sense would play cos this bloke can't identify shit when he see's it I thought we was handed a miracle at half time when we went in level and low and behold he changed nothing I'm sure people are gonna make excuses for him and say it's too early to judge

But from what I've just seen today, this cսnt is David Moyes in a mission impossible mask

[John Coffey]

I think the only way the majority of us would get behind a new manager at this point in the season would be if we were to pay actual money to get a young manager who's on the up.

That's never going to happen.

 

 

Really? That’s depressing. I’d gladly accept Potter right now. 

[Massive Attack]

Fornsls, Benrahma, Ward Prowse and Downes must be counting their blessings!

Recalling JWP would not be a terrible idea. He cannot be worse than Guido or Paqueta.

We committed to allowing him to go on loan for a season, do we definitely have a recall on him, or there for the season now no matter what, unless injured?

[Please avert your eyes H and P, we're discussing Football]

[goose]

Fornsls, Benrahma, Ward Prowse and Downes must be counting their blessings!

Recalling JWP would not be a terrible idea. He cannot be worse than Guido or Paqueta.

[northbankboy68]

Fornsls, Benrahma, Ward Prowse and Downes must be counting their blessings!

[goose]

Genuine question Pickle - have you ever played football at any level?

[Hammer and Pickle]

It's a funny old game, as the old saying goes.

When I cast my mind back to last season we saw Chelsea finish 6th and Bournemouth finish a respectable 12th and us in 9th. However when both new manager's Pochettino and Iraola took charge of their Clubs, they were dogshit for a lot of the 1st half of the season whilst getting to grips with everything going on at their Clubs. 


19 games in last season Bournemouth had 28 points in 10th spot

19 games in last season Chelsea had 25 points in 12th spot

19 games in this season West Ham have 23 points in 13th spot


It goes to show that regardless of who initially comes in to manage a new Club, it usually takes a while for it to turn around and both those Teams last season weren't good for a lot of it until later on. And both those managers had calls for their heads as well during the 1st half of the season.

I'm not saying that guarantees it'll happen with Lopetegui, just that it's nothing new and yet once the season ended both Pochettino and Iraola got a lot of praise and Iraola having stayed on has continued where he left off. But it certainly wasn't transformed in the 1st half of the season with similar points and position as to what we currently have. 




 

Shut up moron.

Apologies Hammered and Pickled, I know debating Football ain't for you.

Actually, football debate has never been the exclusive preserve of the clinically brain-dead whose idea of player development is throwing a wobbly and demanding maximum EFFORT.

[Massive Attack]

It's a funny old game, as the old saying goes.

When I cast my mind back to last season we saw Chelsea finish 6th and Bournemouth finish a respectable 12th and us in 9th. However when both new manager's Pochettino and Iraola took charge of their Clubs, they were dogshit for a lot of the 1st half of the season whilst getting to grips with everything going on at their Clubs. 


19 games in last season Bournemouth had 28 points in 10th spot

19 games in last season Chelsea had 25 points in 12th spot

19 games in this season West Ham have 23 points in 13th spot


It goes to show that regardless of who initially comes in to manage a new Club, it usually takes a while for it to turn around and both those Teams last season weren't good for a lot of it until later on. And both those managers had calls for their heads as well during the 1st half of the season.

I'm not saying that guarantees it'll happen with Lopetegui, just that it's nothing new and yet once the season ended both Pochettino and Iraola got a lot of praise and Iraola having stayed on has continued where he left off. But it certainly wasn't transformed in the 1st half of the season with similar points and position as to what we currently have. 



 

Shut up moron.

Apologies Hammered and Pickled, I know debating Football ain't for you.

[Nutsin]

Stands to reason that to play a high-tempo pressing game at 100% EFFORT, players need to be as much as possible in the positions that suit their specialisations (we assume they are skilled specialists these days) and allowed to operate without undue interference and all the required support. Treating them like some blokes off the Wanstead Marshes and demanding maximum EFFORT just because they have been selected isn’t going to work. There also needs to be a real position-related player development strategy with clear stages, especially for each academy player.

At the moment, even though there may be some kind of programme like this on paper, Sullivan’s interference combined with this clowns incompetence have practically turned it into a smoking hulk.

Poor old pickle! 

[Hammer and Pickle]

It's a funny old game, as the old saying goes.

When I cast my mind back to last season we saw Chelsea finish 6th and Bournemouth finish a respectable 12th and us in 9th. However when both new manager's Pochettino and Iraola took charge of their Clubs, they were dogshit for a lot of the 1st half of the season whilst getting to grips with everything going on at their Clubs. 


19 games in last season Bournemouth had 28 points in 10th spot

19 games in last season Chelsea had 25 points in 12th spot

19 games in this season West Ham have 23 points in 13th spot


It goes to show that regardless of who initially comes in to manage a new Club, it usually takes a while for it to turn around and both those Teams last season weren't good for a lot of it until later on. And both those managers had calls for their heads as well during the 1st half of the season.

I'm not saying that guarantees it'll happen with Lopetegui, just that it's nothing new and yet once the season ended both Pochettino and Iraola got a lot of praise and Iraola having stayed on has continued where he left off. But it certainly wasn't transformed in the 1st half of the season with similar points and position as to what we currently have. 


 

Shut up moron.

[Lee Trundle]

So we're the worst out of the other teams you've mentioned there?

Yay.

[Massive Attack]

It's a funny old game, as the old saying goes.

When I cast my mind back to last season we saw Chelsea finish 6th and Bournemouth finish a respectable 12th and us in 9th. However when both new manager's Pochettino and Iraola took charge of their Clubs, they were dogshit for a lot of the 1st half of the season whilst getting to grips with everything going on at their Clubs. 


19 games in last season Bournemouth had 28 points in 10th spot

19 games in last season Chelsea had 25 points in 12th spot

19 games in this season West Ham have 23 points in 13th spot


It goes to show that regardless of who initially comes in to manage a new Club, it usually takes a while for it to turn around and both those Teams last season weren't good for a lot of it until later on. And both those managers had calls for their heads as well during the 1st half of the season.

I'm not saying that guarantees it'll happen with Lopetegui, just that it's nothing new and yet once the season ended both Pochettino and Iraola got a lot of praise and Iraola having stayed on has continued where he left off. But it certainly wasn't transformed in the 1st half of the season with similar points and position as to what we currently have. 

 

[Swiss.]

In some ways the Southampton game was more deporessing even though we won. They were just sending in diagonal  balls into the box and our centre backs couldn't deal with them. They could have had 3 from similar crosees alone. Lucky they are shit. Our whole formation is fucked. With  the Jan window only a few days away the correction action should be to sack this fake NOW !!!!

But we know the Welsh Dwarf will do fuck all as 17th is his remitt. We probaly only need another 15 points to survive. and we have 3 teams worse than us incredible as it seems. 

[Massive Attack]

Stands to reason that to play a high-tempo pressing game at 100% EFFORT, players need to be as much as possible in the positions that suit their specialisations (we assume they are skilled specialists these days) and allowed to operate without undue interference and all the required support. Treating them like some blokes off the Wanstead Marshes and demanding maximum EFFORT just because they have been selected isn’t going to work. There also needs to be a real position-related player development strategy with clear stages, especially for each academy player.

At the moment, even though there may be some kind of programme like this on paper, Sullivan’s interference combined with this clowns incompetence have practically turned it into a smoking hulk.

anybody wanna translate this?

Not even Lopetegui's translator could.

[Lee Trundle]

I think the only way the majority of us would get behind a new manager at this point in the season would be if we were to pay actual money to get a young manager who's on the up.

That's never going to happen.

[Ron Eff]

Get this cսnt out today and get Fonseca in.

Fonseca's light years ahead of this fraud tactically and the one we should have gone for in the 1st place.

 

 

I agree with part one, but you would have to be mental
to want the second part. Fonseca would be just as bad. 

It’s difficult to know the right next move, but I would probably throw the kitchen sink at Iraola or Thomas Frank and promise them time to build something. I don’t want to hear “why would they move from their current clubs”. We have to be a bigger draw than 12k home ground Bournemouth or fucking Brentford. 

[ragingbull]

I wanted to give him the season but I'm not seeing any green shoots just a lot of brown shit, therefore I want him gone.

[goose]

Stands to reason that to play a high-tempo pressing game at 100% EFFORT, players need to be as much as possible in the positions that suit their specialisations (we assume they are skilled specialists these days) and allowed to operate without undue interference and all the required support. Treating them like some blokes off the Wanstead Marshes and demanding maximum EFFORT just because they have been selected isn’t going to work. There also needs to be a real position-related player development strategy with clear stages, especially for each academy player.

At the moment, even though there may be some kind of programme like this on paper, Sullivan’s interference combined with this clowns incompetence have practically turned it into a smoking hulk.

anybody wanna translate this?

[LJC]

Southgate’s odds are coming in

[Hammer and Pickle]

Stands to reason that to play a high-tempo pressing game at 100% EFFORT, players need to be as much as possible in the positions that suit their specialisations (we assume they are skilled specialists these days) and allowed to operate without undue interference and all the required support. Treating them like some blokes off the Wanstead Marshes and demanding maximum EFFORT just because they have been selected isn’t going to work. There also needs to be a real position-related player development strategy with clear stages, especially for each academy player.

At the moment, even though there may be some kind of programme like this on paper, Sullivan’s interference combined with this clowns incompetence have practically turned it into a smoking hulk.

[Massive Attack]

They're all culpable for our haphazard recruitment strategy. They all agree to disagree with one another and lack any proper joined up thinking. It's like they all take turns recruiting players from a Lucky Dip blindfolded. I reckon Steidten, Sullivan and Lopetegui all hate one another.  

[RootsRadical]

Said I'd give him until Xmas so here we are.
I went yesterday and witnessed the worst performance I can remember for a while.
Bizarre line up & tactics, no basic organisation, no fight, no energy, just a shambles.

My choice would be Frank at Brentford, they buzz (excuse the pun) around opponents and do not give them time & space, high energy, relentless pressing, speedy direct counter attacks, they have no respect for the "big clubs" which is the way forward for clubs like us.
Would also get our fans onboard seeing effort from the players and would improve the atmosphere which has reached a point of unbothered resignation.
High line tippy tappy playing out from the back is fine if you are a massive club with the best players.
Most of our players are totally unsuited to this style and the Premier league per se.

Frank would need to be allowed to shape his squad to suit but may get more of a tune out of some of our players.
Can't see the dwarf paying out for a manager though so my guess is we are fucked and in decline.


Do you honestly think Frank would come to our toxic club?
We're not a step up,we should be but we're not.




 

 

We are a step up for sure but as you say would he come to us with Sullivan the pulling the strings and does Sullivan have the nous and ambition to go for him and convince him to come, history suggests not.
Potter appears to be his next choice which is typical Sullivan. Unemployed former manager of a big club who also had a bit of success at Brighton purely because Brighton are a well run club with a great ethos & structure which is why every manager since Potter has done well and made an immediate impact.
That's why I don't think Potter would succeed with us and suspect it would be more of the same.
Nothing changes until Sullivan fucks off!

 

 

 

 

 

[onsideman]

"...Very true and why I never thought just the 9 new signings in the summer would be enough to weed out all the deadwood and wrongens. And the fact we needed 9 new summer signings to begin with tells you how much work has been needed to address an aged, injury prone and more quality needed. There's also a lot more work that needs doing regardless of who is manager..."


That's all true, however we would certainly be a lot further forward if even, say, 6 of those 9 actually (and undeniably) improved the first team or were liked or trusted by the manager. Frankly, it wouldn't matter if we signed another 9 in January if the quality of the players, or the manager, is unchanged.
 

[Russ of the BML]

Said I'd give him until Xmas so here we are.
I went yesterday and witnessed the worst performance I can remember for a while.
Bizarre line up & tactics, no basic organisation, no fight, no energy, just a shambles.

My choice would be Frank at Brentford, they buzz (excuse the pun) around opponents and do not give them time & space, high energy, relentless pressing, speedy direct counter attacks, they have no respect for the "big clubs" which is the way forward for clubs like us.
Would also get our fans onboard seeing effort from the players and would improve the atmosphere which has reached a point of unbothered resignation.
High line tippy tappy playing out from the back is fine if you are a massive club with the best players.
Most of our players are totally unsuited to this style and the Premier league per se.

Frank would need to be allowed to shape his squad to suit but may get more of a tune out of some of our players.
Can't see the dwarf paying out for a manager though so my guess is we are fucked and in decline.






 

Frank would be my first choice too. If not, Silva. 

[Percy Dalton]

Said I'd give him until Xmas so here we are.
I went yesterday and witnessed the worst performance I can remember for a while.
Bizarre line up & tactics, no basic organisation, no fight, no energy, just a shambles.

My choice would be Frank at Brentford, they buzz (excuse the pun) around opponents and do not give them time & space, high energy, relentless pressing, speedy direct counter attacks, they have no respect for the "big clubs" which is the way forward for clubs like us.
Would also get our fans onboard seeing effort from the players and would improve the atmosphere which has reached a point of unbothered resignation.
High line tippy tappy playing out from the back is fine if you are a massive club with the best players.
Most of our players are totally unsuited to this style and the Premier league per se.

Frank would need to be allowed to shape his squad to suit but may get more of a tune out of some of our players.
Can't see the dwarf paying out for a manager though so my guess is we are fucked and in decline.


Do you honestly think Frank would come to our toxic club?
We're not a step up,we should be but we're not.


 

 

 

 

 

 

[Russ of the BML]

Not defending Lop, he's been poor.  But let's not forget the team he inherited from Moyes was in rapid decline and in relegation form.

In Moyes final 19 games we accumulated 19 points (W4 D7 L8) and -17 GD
In Loppy's first 19 games, we accumulated 23 points (W6 D5 L8) and -14 GD

A less than remarkable improvement and certainly expected much better than this.  

But sometimes a little perspective is important.

Not least for anyone who is genuinely suggesting bringing back Moyes.





 

 

Yes, Moyes team and (very small) squad was in decline based on its optimum performance. But it still wasn't a bad team and squad. Lope had a whole window to get players in to strengthen and fill holes, yet we look just as bad now as we did under Moyes towards the end of his time. 

Yes, they are both pretty tragic records, but Moyes was on his way and knew he had lost the players. They weren't going to die for him anymore. His mis-management of the squad and suicidal tactics had taken their toll. What's Lope's excuse?

I think you do raise a valid point. But looking at the confused and insepid performances under Lope, with literally no sense of improvement, I am staggered he is still here. 

Not arguing with that Russ.  It's been far from ideal start from Lop and for me, the of lack of any optimism because it looks like he still doesn't know what his best team and formation is.  Obviously that might change per game and we can see that he's trying to play it out from the back, improving out posession stats etc but the team still don't look like they are playing as a team.

Expect he has some time to prove himself but there is allot of work to do and some of it you'd expect him to have addressed by now.

I think the possession based gameplan is more sustainable across a long season. Moyes defend, defend, defend, defend then break tactics were so draining on the players. And when it went wrong it went very wrong. At least with more possession based gameplan you are able to get your breath back and re-group during games. 

But Lope has just too many other issues to contend with:

We don't defend well enough as a whole team
We don't defend well enough against a fast break
Our midfield has a lack of pace and is too easily dissected
We give the ball away too much
We don't play enough forward key passes
We don't break the opponents lines enough
Our general distribution is average
Lope doesn't know the best eleven
We don't press hard and fast enough
There is no organised press
Our final ball is average and too often wasteful
Key players are not influencing games enough

So, possession based football, I am all for. I mean, it beats watching the likes of Leicester and Bournemouth pass it around at our ground for 75 minutes of the 90. But, for me, there is just too much going wrong on the pitch that no matter what strategy or gameplan we have, its just not going to work.