The Official Politics Thread (enter at your own risk)

[Come On You Irons]

There. Resident WHO political commentators and gurus can knock yourselves out in here and conduct your endless bickering. All other threads will be locked.

[goose]

Of course I’m not blackmailing anyone and have absolutely no complaint about how the site is being moderated right now.

So to be clear fella, you didn't approach the mods?

 

He said that he was reporting ppl last night. It’s since deleted.

[Hammer and Pickle]

When Pickle says 'moral panic', what he really means is ghastly, thick working class people having strong opinions on things that affect their communities. But who cares about them? They don't even have degrees in sociology,  so how can they understand what's good for them?

You really have no mandate to speak for anyone.

[Nurse Ratched]

That's a lot of words. Is he blackmailing you? If he is, we will understand your stance.

Of course I’m not blackmailing anyone and have absolutely no complaint about how the site is being moderated right now.

 

You mean after you went crying to the mods like the absolute wet wipe you are? Happy to give it out but run off crying when it comes your way.

 

 

Some years ago. Pickle went through a brief phase of accusing me and my family of being IRA sympathisers. I shrugged it off. I didn't go crying to the mods, because I'm a grown adult.

[Hammer and Pickle]

Moral panics were first described and analysed in the brilliant study Folk Devils and Moral Panics by Stanley Cohen. I'd say its also textbook reading for Elon Musk, Reform, the Trump GOP and of course Kremlin planners.

https://www.amazon.com/Devils-Moral-Pan ... 0415610168
 

[MaryMillingtonsGhost]

Of course I’m not blackmailing anyone and have absolutely no complaint about how the site is being moderated right now.

So to be clear fella, you didn't approach the mods?

 

 

[goose]

That's a lot of words. Is he blackmailing you? If he is, we will understand your stance.

Of course I’m not blackmailing anyone and have absolutely no complaint about how the site is being moderated right now.

 

 

You mean after you went crying to the mods like the absolute wet wipe you are? Happy to give it out but run off crying when it comes your way.

[Cabbige Savage]

Juss becose some 1 say they go to authoritys if you not do what they say dos not make it black male. 

[Nurse Ratched]

That's a lot of words. Is he blackmailing you? If he is, we will understand your stance.

Of course I’m not blackmailing anyone and have absolutely no complaint about how the site is being moderated right now.

Well of course you have no complaints about the modding. You delibrrately provoke abuse from posters, then run crying to the mods, and they fight your battles for you. 

[Nurse Ratched]

When Pickle says 'moral panic', what he really means is ghastly, thick working class people having strong opinions on things that affect their communities. But who cares about them? They don't even have degrees in sociology,  so how can they understand what's good for them?

[Hammer and Pickle]

That's a lot of words. Is he blackmailing you? If he is, we will understand your stance.

Of course I’m not blackmailing anyone and have absolutely no complaint about how the site is being moderated right now.

[Massive Attack]

I see there is actually quite a lot of cross-party consensus on Musk trying to stoke another moral panic about the grooming gangs. 

Would anyone like provide a little more detail and clarity on what lies he has actually been telling before I have to find out myself?

 

 

"Stoke another moral panic about grooming gangs"

The moral panic was already there by those who were long paying attention to it years ago. Anyone in their right mind would have moral panic and outage over what happened/happens and glad someone high profile is turning up the heat and the spotlight on it.

[Leavemyarcelona]

Anyway, if you've all quite finished calling each other paedos, todays geography lesson from Suella Braverman...


 

She meant greece and you know it

[Nurse Ratched]

That's a lot of words. Is he blackmailing you? If he is, we will understand your stance.

[Hammer and Pickle]

I think you're on the wrong side of this one, Stubbo. Over the years, Pickle has repeatedly minimised stories of grooming and sexual assault, including against minors. None of us can pull a C&P'd example on demand because it isn't us that have a 'dossy-yay'. But we have all seen it and argued with him over it.

If your support of Pickle here is only because he is blackmailing you with threats to have the site shut down, then be honest and say so. We would all understand that. But please don't attempt to gaslight us by asserting that he has never posted in support of or minimised the actions of groomers and rapists or the fallout. 

 

 

Rubbish.

I have never minimised any stories of grooming and sexual assault. Instead, I have sought to put them in their proper context, which includes the interests of those who are trying to provoke and incite violence for their own abusive political purposes. There is no minimisation if I do this. In fact it sheds light on exactly how atrocious the crime is on a state level rather than just the personal one. And it does nothing to detract from the personal aspect either.

[stubbo-admin]

I think you're on the wrong side of this one, Stubbo. Over the years, Pickle has repeatedly minimised stories of grooming and sexual assault, including against minors. None of us can pull a C&P'd example on demand because it isn't us that have a 'dossy-yay'. But we have all seen it and argued with him over it.

If your support of Pickle here is only because he is blackmailing you with threats to have the site shut down, then be honest and say so. We would all understand that. But please don't attempt to gaslight us by asserting that he has never posted in support of or minimised the actions of groomers and rapists or the fallout. 

 

 

I have little overall historical context and have no interest in holding views on a specific issue around a specific poster that runs cross-thread.  I've got no 'skin' in the game of this particular topic or argument or interest in taking sides, and  come only at it from trying to run a publicly available forum in which the site's community don't seemingly want us to just shut down anything that moves to the emotive or controversial.

Irrespective the topic or the history, controversial views are a fact of life, and at WHO we've tried to let them be presented.

But as a site we can't support direct targeted abuse against individuals that goes beyond banter for whatever reason, especially when that abuse moves towards what could be considered defamatory and starts to present a potential legal problem for those that are considered site operators (whether enacted or not). 

That's simply the nature of running a publicly visible forum whether the community here likes it or not.

There are other approaches we can of course take that become more heavy handed, but we've tried to avoid that.

[goose]

Fringe view?

The Cologne sex attacks took place in the context of a mass migration event triggered by Putin’s support of the Assad regime’s genocide in Syria. It has been long-term Kremlin policy to put Western democracies under pressure using organised illegal migration and promoting extremist local elements like AfD of UKIP at the time. We see exactly this taking place on the Polish/Belarus border since 2020.

As for Musk, he’s so obviously shit-stirring there’s hardly any point in even discussing it.

The cologne sex attacks happened in 2016, and were largely North Africans.

Try again.

[Cabbige Savage]

Dossyay wins again 

GOOD TIMES 

[Hammer and Pickle]

Fringe view?

The Cologne sex attacks took place in the context of a mass migration event triggered by Putin’s support of the Assad regime’s genocide in Syria. It has been long-term Kremlin policy to put Western democracies under pressure using organised illegal migration and promoting extremist local elements like AfD of UKIP at the time. We see exactly this taking place on the Polish/Belarus border since 2020.

As for Musk, he’s so obviously shit-stirring there’s hardly any point in even discussing it.

[Nurse Ratched]

I think you're on the wrong side of this one, Stubbo. Over the years, Pickle has repeatedly minimised stories of grooming and sexual assault, including against minors. None of us can pull a C&P'd example on demand because it isn't us that have a 'dossy-yay'. But we have all seen it and argued with him over it.

If your support of Pickle here is only because he is blackmailing you with threats to have the site shut down, then be honest and say so. We would all understand that. But please don't attempt to gaslight us by asserting that he has never posted in support of or minimised the actions of groomers and rapists or the fallout. 

[goose]

 

Show me the comment where this as a crime was 'played down' or condoned, as opposed to the a controversial explanation for it via conspiracy theory having been presented.  And lets be frank, if you want to engage in the disucssion of controversial or emotive topics in a forum such as this, you have to be open to engaging with controversial or emotive viewpoints without resorting to name calling or abuse, even if provoked.

Mudslinging abuse at indiviudals rather than engaging in logical debate around why their views are misguided is the exact way to have this kind of thread shut down.  If the site were to allow this kind of behaviour it is a good way to have the site shut down and the operators of the site ultimately in trouble with the law.  And we're a football forum first and foremost, not a free speech crusade.

If the site doesn't want to just have this kind of topic completely blacklisted, than unless an accusation is backed up with evidence and can be justified as a viewpoint, it will just be deemed abuse.

But 95% are fed up with the deterioration of discussion turning to abuse and vitriol.  If you want to do that, frankly, go do it on X or Reddit or one of the other many vehicles for trolling and name calling that exist.

We have devisive characters that present 'devils advocate' or contrary view points.  That goes hand in hand with discussion.  If you don't like what they say, take their oxygen away and don't engage.

But myself and the mods are getting fed up with having to police the back and forth arguing and bickering between (assumed) adults.  There is no innate right on a publicly presented privately owned forum to say what you like to whoever you like without consequences, or to demand that because someone has an opinion you don't like (in either direction) that they should be ostracised. 

We're a West Ham football forum first and foremost, not a 'West Ham & XYZ Policitial Leaning' forum.  And we're tired of dealing with off-topic discussions turning to abuse.

There’s two perfect examples below.
1) passing off mass sexual assault in Germany as some kind of KGB operation 
2) playing down Musks request for a public enquiry as him “trying to incite moral panic” as if the mass grooming & rape of young girls somehow is being overblown.

But my point is in neither of those instances is he sympathising with the crime itself which is the accusation.  I agree they are fringe and controversial view points...but there are those that subscribe to the KGB viewpoint, and there are those that think Musk needs to get back in his lane.  Name calling and abuse off the back of presenting those is actually just going to shut down discussion and debate.

If everyone just says "yes I agree"....much easier for this site, much less controversy, much less debate.

Debate the validity of the KGB operation perspective or why Musk is fully informed and right to call for what he's calling. 

To be clear I don't agree with either of the views presented (although I suspect Musk doesn't do much research to validate a claim before shooting his mouth off in general), but I accept some hold them and have every right to do so without being attacked or shut down for them.

If we can't have debates and contrary views on the threads like this sensibly presented and debated without it descending into aggressive and abusive arguments, then threads like this themselves will just get repeatedly locked, posts deleted until the time comes where it's just too much hassle to administer and they get deleted/blacklisted from the get go.

You said “show me where it’s being played down” and I’ve just done that.
If someone plays down such abhorrent crimes then they deserve all the abuse that comes their way.

You excuse one poster’s actions until things don’t go his way and he complains.

[stubbo-admin]

Brilliant.

So Pickle the weasel plays down grooming & rape of children, gets called out for it and then runs crying to the mods.

 

Show me the comment where this as a crime was 'played down' or condoned, as opposed to the a controversial explanation for it via conspiracy theory having been presented.  And lets be frank, if you want to engage in the disucssion of controversial or emotive topics in a forum such as this, you have to be open to engaging with controversial or emotive viewpoints without resorting to name calling or abuse, even if provoked.

Mudslinging abuse at indiviudals rather than engaging in logical debate around why their views are misguided is the exact way to have this kind of thread shut down.  If the site were to allow this kind of behaviour it is a good way to have the site shut down and the operators of the site ultimately in trouble with the law.  And we're a football forum first and foremost, not a free speech crusade.

If the site doesn't want to just have this kind of topic completely blacklisted, than unless an accusation is backed up with evidence and can be justified as a viewpoint, it will just be deemed abuse.

But 95% are fed up with the deterioration of discussion turning to abuse and vitriol.  If you want to do that, frankly, go do it on X or Reddit or one of the other many vehicles for trolling and name calling that exist.

We have devisive characters that present 'devils advocate' or contrary view points.  That goes hand in hand with discussion.  If you don't like what they say, take their oxygen away and don't engage.

But myself and the mods are getting fed up with having to police the back and forth arguing and bickering between (assumed) adults.  There is no innate right on a publicly presented privately owned forum to say what you like to whoever you like without consequences, or to demand that because someone has an opinion you don't like (in either direction) that they should be ostracised. 

We're a West Ham football forum first and foremost, not a 'West Ham & XYZ Policitial Leaning' forum.  And we're tired of dealing with off-topic discussions turning to abuse.

There’s two perfect examples below.
1) passing off mass sexual assault in Germany as some kind of KGB operation 
2) playing down Musks request for a public enquiry as him “trying to incite moral panic” as if the mass grooming & rape of young girls somehow is being overblown.

But my point is in neither of those instances is he sympathising with the crime itself which is the accusation.  I agree they are fringe and controversial view points...but there are those that subscribe to the KGB viewpoint, and there are those that think Musk needs to get back in his lane.  Name calling and abuse off the back of presenting those is actually just going to shut down discussion and debate.

If everyone just says "yes I agree"....much easier for this site, much less controversy, much less debate.

Debate the validity of the KGB operation perspective or why Musk is fully informed and right to call for what he's calling. 

To be clear I don't agree with either of the views presented (although I suspect Musk doesn't do much research to validate a claim before shooting his mouth off in general), but I accept some hold them and have every right to do so without being attacked or shut down for them.

If we can't have debates and contrary views on the threads like this sensibly presented and debated without it descending into aggressive and abusive arguments, then threads like this themselves will just get repeatedly locked, posts deleted until the time comes where it's just too much hassle to administer and they get deleted/blacklisted from the get go.

[goose]

Brilliant.

So Pickle the weasel plays down grooming & rape of children, gets called out for it and then runs crying to the mods.

 

Show me the comment where this as a crime was 'played down' or condoned, as opposed to the a controversial explanation for it via conspiracy theory having been presented.  And lets be frank, if you want to engage in the disucssion of controversial or emotive topics in a forum such as this, you have to be open to engaging with controversial or emotive viewpoints without resorting to name calling or abuse, even if provoked.

Mudslinging abuse at indiviudals rather than engaging in logical debate around why their views are misguided is the exact way to have this kind of thread shut down.  If the site were to allow this kind of behaviour it is a good way to have the site shut down and the operators of the site ultimately in trouble with the law.  And we're a football forum first and foremost, not a free speech crusade.

If the site doesn't want to just have this kind of topic completely blacklisted, than unless an accusation is backed up with evidence and can be justified as a viewpoint, it will just be deemed abuse.

But 95% are fed up with the deterioration of discussion turning to abuse and vitriol.  If you want to do that, frankly, go do it on X or Reddit or one of the other many vehicles for trolling and name calling that exist.

We have devisive characters that present 'devils advocate' or contrary view points.  That goes hand in hand with discussion.  If you don't like what they say, take their oxygen away and don't engage.

But myself and the mods are getting fed up with having to police the back and forth arguing and bickering between (assumed) adults.  There is no innate right on a publicly presented privately owned forum to say what you like to whoever you like without consequences, or to demand that because someone has an opinion you don't like (in either direction) that they should be ostracised. 

We're a West Ham football forum first and foremost, not a 'West Ham & XYZ Policitial Leaning' forum.  And we're tired of dealing with off-topic discussions turning to abuse.

There’s two perfect examples below.
1) passing off mass sexual assault in Germany as some kind of KGB operation 
2) playing down Musks request for a public enquiry as him “trying to incite moral panic” as if the mass grooming & rape of young girls somehow is being overblown.

[Cabbige Savage]

Brilliant.

So Pickle the weasel plays down grooming & rape of children, gets called out for it and then runs crying to the mods.

 

Show me the comment where this as a crime was 'played down' or condoned, as opposed to the a controversial explanation for it via conspiracy theory having been presented.  And lets be frank, if you want to engage in the disucssion of controversial or emotive topics in a forum such as this, you have to be open to engaging with controversial or emotive viewpoints without resorting to name calling or abuse, even if provoked.

Mudslinging abuse at indiviudals rather than engaging in logical debate around why their views are misguided is the exact way to have this kind of thread shut down.  If the site were to allow this kind of behaviour it is a good way to have the site shut down and the operators of the site ultimately in trouble with the law.  And we're a football forum first and foremost, not a free speech crusade.

If the site doesn't want to just have this kind of topic completely blacklisted, than unless an accusation is backed up with evidence and can be justified as a viewpoint, it will just be deemed abuse.

But 95% are fed up with the deterioration of discussion turning to abuse and vitriol.  If you want to do that, frankly, go do it on X or Reddit or one of the other many vehicles for trolling and name calling that exist.

We have devisive characters that present 'devils advocate' or contrary view points.  That goes hand in hand with discussion.  If you don't like what they say, take their oxygen away and don't engage.

But myself and the mods are getting fed up with having to police the back and forth arguing and bickering between (assumed) adults.  There is no innate right on a publicly presented privately owned forum to say what you like to whoever you like without consequences, or to demand that because someone has an opinion you don't like (in either direction) that they should be ostracised. 

We're a West Ham football forum first and foremost, not a 'West Ham & XYZ Policitial Leaning' forum.  And we're tired of dealing with off-topic discussions turning to abuse.

I show you sub Saharan naggers comment? 
Or Putin stage sex attaks? 

[stubbo-admin]

Brilliant.

So Pickle the weasel plays down grooming & rape of children, gets called out for it and then runs crying to the mods.

 

 

Show me the comment where this as a crime was 'played down' or condoned, as opposed to the a controversial explanation for it via conspiracy theory having been presented.  And lets be frank, if you want to engage in the disucssion of controversial or emotive topics in a forum such as this, you have to be open to engaging with controversial or emotive viewpoints without resorting to name calling or abuse, even if provoked.

Mudslinging abuse at indiviudals rather than engaging in logical debate around why their views are misguided is the exact way to have this kind of thread shut down.  If the site were to allow this kind of behaviour it is a good way to have the site shut down and the operators of the site ultimately in trouble with the law.  And we're a football forum first and foremost, not a free speech crusade.

If the site doesn't want to just have this kind of topic completely blacklisted, than unless an accusation is backed up with evidence and can be justified as a viewpoint, it will just be deemed abuse.

But 95% are fed up with the deterioration of discussion turning to abuse and vitriol.  If you want to do that, frankly, go do it on X or Reddit or one of the other many vehicles for trolling and name calling that exist.

We have devisive characters that present 'devils advocate' or contrary view points.  That goes hand in hand with discussion.  If you don't like what they say, take their oxygen away and don't engage.

But myself and the mods are getting fed up with having to police the back and forth arguing and bickering between (assumed) adults.  There is no innate right on a publicly presented privately owned forum to say what you like to whoever you like without consequences, or to demand that because someone has an opinion you don't like (in either direction) that they should be ostracised. 

We're a West Ham football forum first and foremost, not a 'West Ham & XYZ Policitial Leaning' forum.  And we're tired of dealing with off-topic discussions turning to abuse.

[Cabbige Savage]

Anyway, if you've all quite finished calling each other paedos, todays geography lesson from Suella Braverman...



 

 

 

Is bad to defend to defend peado apologist?

This could be awkward look for my firend 

Regards 
Cabbige