The Official Politics Thread (enter at your own risk)

[Come On You Irons]

There. Resident WHO political commentators and gurus can knock yourselves out in here and conduct your endless bickering. All other threads will be locked.

[goose]

Fringe view?

The Cologne sex attacks took place in the context of a mass migration event triggered by Putin’s support of the Assad regime’s genocide in Syria. It has been long-term Kremlin policy to put Western democracies under pressure using organised illegal migration and promoting extremist local elements like AfD of UKIP at the time. We see exactly this taking place on the Polish/Belarus border since 2020.

As for Musk, he’s so obviously shit-stirring there’s hardly any point in even discussing it.

The cologne sex attacks happened in 2016, and were largely North Africans.

Try again.

[Cabbige Savage]

Dossyay wins again 

GOOD TIMES 

[Hammer and Pickle]

Fringe view?

The Cologne sex attacks took place in the context of a mass migration event triggered by Putin’s support of the Assad regime’s genocide in Syria. It has been long-term Kremlin policy to put Western democracies under pressure using organised illegal migration and promoting extremist local elements like AfD of UKIP at the time. We see exactly this taking place on the Polish/Belarus border since 2020.

As for Musk, he’s so obviously shit-stirring there’s hardly any point in even discussing it.

[Nurse Ratched]

I think you're on the wrong side of this one, Stubbo. Over the years, Pickle has repeatedly minimised stories of grooming and sexual assault, including against minors. None of us can pull a C&P'd example on demand because it isn't us that have a 'dossy-yay'. But we have all seen it and argued with him over it.

If your support of Pickle here is only because he is blackmailing you with threats to have the site shut down, then be honest and say so. We would all understand that. But please don't attempt to gaslight us by asserting that he has never posted in support of or minimised the actions of groomers and rapists or the fallout. 

[goose]

 

Show me the comment where this as a crime was 'played down' or condoned, as opposed to the a controversial explanation for it via conspiracy theory having been presented.  And lets be frank, if you want to engage in the disucssion of controversial or emotive topics in a forum such as this, you have to be open to engaging with controversial or emotive viewpoints without resorting to name calling or abuse, even if provoked.

Mudslinging abuse at indiviudals rather than engaging in logical debate around why their views are misguided is the exact way to have this kind of thread shut down.  If the site were to allow this kind of behaviour it is a good way to have the site shut down and the operators of the site ultimately in trouble with the law.  And we're a football forum first and foremost, not a free speech crusade.

If the site doesn't want to just have this kind of topic completely blacklisted, than unless an accusation is backed up with evidence and can be justified as a viewpoint, it will just be deemed abuse.

But 95% are fed up with the deterioration of discussion turning to abuse and vitriol.  If you want to do that, frankly, go do it on X or Reddit or one of the other many vehicles for trolling and name calling that exist.

We have devisive characters that present 'devils advocate' or contrary view points.  That goes hand in hand with discussion.  If you don't like what they say, take their oxygen away and don't engage.

But myself and the mods are getting fed up with having to police the back and forth arguing and bickering between (assumed) adults.  There is no innate right on a publicly presented privately owned forum to say what you like to whoever you like without consequences, or to demand that because someone has an opinion you don't like (in either direction) that they should be ostracised. 

We're a West Ham football forum first and foremost, not a 'West Ham & XYZ Policitial Leaning' forum.  And we're tired of dealing with off-topic discussions turning to abuse.

There’s two perfect examples below.
1) passing off mass sexual assault in Germany as some kind of KGB operation 
2) playing down Musks request for a public enquiry as him “trying to incite moral panic” as if the mass grooming & rape of young girls somehow is being overblown.

But my point is in neither of those instances is he sympathising with the crime itself which is the accusation.  I agree they are fringe and controversial view points...but there are those that subscribe to the KGB viewpoint, and there are those that think Musk needs to get back in his lane.  Name calling and abuse off the back of presenting those is actually just going to shut down discussion and debate.

If everyone just says "yes I agree"....much easier for this site, much less controversy, much less debate.

Debate the validity of the KGB operation perspective or why Musk is fully informed and right to call for what he's calling. 

To be clear I don't agree with either of the views presented (although I suspect Musk doesn't do much research to validate a claim before shooting his mouth off in general), but I accept some hold them and have every right to do so without being attacked or shut down for them.

If we can't have debates and contrary views on the threads like this sensibly presented and debated without it descending into aggressive and abusive arguments, then threads like this themselves will just get repeatedly locked, posts deleted until the time comes where it's just too much hassle to administer and they get deleted/blacklisted from the get go.

You said “show me where it’s being played down” and I’ve just done that.
If someone plays down such abhorrent crimes then they deserve all the abuse that comes their way.

You excuse one poster’s actions until things don’t go his way and he complains.

[stubbo-admin]

Brilliant.

So Pickle the weasel plays down grooming & rape of children, gets called out for it and then runs crying to the mods.

 

Show me the comment where this as a crime was 'played down' or condoned, as opposed to the a controversial explanation for it via conspiracy theory having been presented.  And lets be frank, if you want to engage in the disucssion of controversial or emotive topics in a forum such as this, you have to be open to engaging with controversial or emotive viewpoints without resorting to name calling or abuse, even if provoked.

Mudslinging abuse at indiviudals rather than engaging in logical debate around why their views are misguided is the exact way to have this kind of thread shut down.  If the site were to allow this kind of behaviour it is a good way to have the site shut down and the operators of the site ultimately in trouble with the law.  And we're a football forum first and foremost, not a free speech crusade.

If the site doesn't want to just have this kind of topic completely blacklisted, than unless an accusation is backed up with evidence and can be justified as a viewpoint, it will just be deemed abuse.

But 95% are fed up with the deterioration of discussion turning to abuse and vitriol.  If you want to do that, frankly, go do it on X or Reddit or one of the other many vehicles for trolling and name calling that exist.

We have devisive characters that present 'devils advocate' or contrary view points.  That goes hand in hand with discussion.  If you don't like what they say, take their oxygen away and don't engage.

But myself and the mods are getting fed up with having to police the back and forth arguing and bickering between (assumed) adults.  There is no innate right on a publicly presented privately owned forum to say what you like to whoever you like without consequences, or to demand that because someone has an opinion you don't like (in either direction) that they should be ostracised. 

We're a West Ham football forum first and foremost, not a 'West Ham & XYZ Policitial Leaning' forum.  And we're tired of dealing with off-topic discussions turning to abuse.

There’s two perfect examples below.
1) passing off mass sexual assault in Germany as some kind of KGB operation 
2) playing down Musks request for a public enquiry as him “trying to incite moral panic” as if the mass grooming & rape of young girls somehow is being overblown.

But my point is in neither of those instances is he sympathising with the crime itself which is the accusation.  I agree they are fringe and controversial view points...but there are those that subscribe to the KGB viewpoint, and there are those that think Musk needs to get back in his lane.  Name calling and abuse off the back of presenting those is actually just going to shut down discussion and debate.

If everyone just says "yes I agree"....much easier for this site, much less controversy, much less debate.

Debate the validity of the KGB operation perspective or why Musk is fully informed and right to call for what he's calling. 

To be clear I don't agree with either of the views presented (although I suspect Musk doesn't do much research to validate a claim before shooting his mouth off in general), but I accept some hold them and have every right to do so without being attacked or shut down for them.

If we can't have debates and contrary views on the threads like this sensibly presented and debated without it descending into aggressive and abusive arguments, then threads like this themselves will just get repeatedly locked, posts deleted until the time comes where it's just too much hassle to administer and they get deleted/blacklisted from the get go.

[goose]

Brilliant.

So Pickle the weasel plays down grooming & rape of children, gets called out for it and then runs crying to the mods.

 

Show me the comment where this as a crime was 'played down' or condoned, as opposed to the a controversial explanation for it via conspiracy theory having been presented.  And lets be frank, if you want to engage in the disucssion of controversial or emotive topics in a forum such as this, you have to be open to engaging with controversial or emotive viewpoints without resorting to name calling or abuse, even if provoked.

Mudslinging abuse at indiviudals rather than engaging in logical debate around why their views are misguided is the exact way to have this kind of thread shut down.  If the site were to allow this kind of behaviour it is a good way to have the site shut down and the operators of the site ultimately in trouble with the law.  And we're a football forum first and foremost, not a free speech crusade.

If the site doesn't want to just have this kind of topic completely blacklisted, than unless an accusation is backed up with evidence and can be justified as a viewpoint, it will just be deemed abuse.

But 95% are fed up with the deterioration of discussion turning to abuse and vitriol.  If you want to do that, frankly, go do it on X or Reddit or one of the other many vehicles for trolling and name calling that exist.

We have devisive characters that present 'devils advocate' or contrary view points.  That goes hand in hand with discussion.  If you don't like what they say, take their oxygen away and don't engage.

But myself and the mods are getting fed up with having to police the back and forth arguing and bickering between (assumed) adults.  There is no innate right on a publicly presented privately owned forum to say what you like to whoever you like without consequences, or to demand that because someone has an opinion you don't like (in either direction) that they should be ostracised. 

We're a West Ham football forum first and foremost, not a 'West Ham & XYZ Policitial Leaning' forum.  And we're tired of dealing with off-topic discussions turning to abuse.

There’s two perfect examples below.
1) passing off mass sexual assault in Germany as some kind of KGB operation 
2) playing down Musks request for a public enquiry as him “trying to incite moral panic” as if the mass grooming & rape of young girls somehow is being overblown.

[Cabbige Savage]

Brilliant.

So Pickle the weasel plays down grooming & rape of children, gets called out for it and then runs crying to the mods.

 

Show me the comment where this as a crime was 'played down' or condoned, as opposed to the a controversial explanation for it via conspiracy theory having been presented.  And lets be frank, if you want to engage in the disucssion of controversial or emotive topics in a forum such as this, you have to be open to engaging with controversial or emotive viewpoints without resorting to name calling or abuse, even if provoked.

Mudslinging abuse at indiviudals rather than engaging in logical debate around why their views are misguided is the exact way to have this kind of thread shut down.  If the site were to allow this kind of behaviour it is a good way to have the site shut down and the operators of the site ultimately in trouble with the law.  And we're a football forum first and foremost, not a free speech crusade.

If the site doesn't want to just have this kind of topic completely blacklisted, than unless an accusation is backed up with evidence and can be justified as a viewpoint, it will just be deemed abuse.

But 95% are fed up with the deterioration of discussion turning to abuse and vitriol.  If you want to do that, frankly, go do it on X or Reddit or one of the other many vehicles for trolling and name calling that exist.

We have devisive characters that present 'devils advocate' or contrary view points.  That goes hand in hand with discussion.  If you don't like what they say, take their oxygen away and don't engage.

But myself and the mods are getting fed up with having to police the back and forth arguing and bickering between (assumed) adults.  There is no innate right on a publicly presented privately owned forum to say what you like to whoever you like without consequences, or to demand that because someone has an opinion you don't like (in either direction) that they should be ostracised. 

We're a West Ham football forum first and foremost, not a 'West Ham & XYZ Policitial Leaning' forum.  And we're tired of dealing with off-topic discussions turning to abuse.

I show you sub Saharan naggers comment? 
Or Putin stage sex attaks? 

[stubbo-admin]

Brilliant.

So Pickle the weasel plays down grooming & rape of children, gets called out for it and then runs crying to the mods.

 

 

Show me the comment where this as a crime was 'played down' or condoned, as opposed to the a controversial explanation for it via conspiracy theory having been presented.  And lets be frank, if you want to engage in the disucssion of controversial or emotive topics in a forum such as this, you have to be open to engaging with controversial or emotive viewpoints without resorting to name calling or abuse, even if provoked.

Mudslinging abuse at indiviudals rather than engaging in logical debate around why their views are misguided is the exact way to have this kind of thread shut down.  If the site were to allow this kind of behaviour it is a good way to have the site shut down and the operators of the site ultimately in trouble with the law.  And we're a football forum first and foremost, not a free speech crusade.

If the site doesn't want to just have this kind of topic completely blacklisted, than unless an accusation is backed up with evidence and can be justified as a viewpoint, it will just be deemed abuse.

But 95% are fed up with the deterioration of discussion turning to abuse and vitriol.  If you want to do that, frankly, go do it on X or Reddit or one of the other many vehicles for trolling and name calling that exist.

We have devisive characters that present 'devils advocate' or contrary view points.  That goes hand in hand with discussion.  If you don't like what they say, take their oxygen away and don't engage.

But myself and the mods are getting fed up with having to police the back and forth arguing and bickering between (assumed) adults.  There is no innate right on a publicly presented privately owned forum to say what you like to whoever you like without consequences, or to demand that because someone has an opinion you don't like (in either direction) that they should be ostracised. 

We're a West Ham football forum first and foremost, not a 'West Ham & XYZ Policitial Leaning' forum.  And we're tired of dealing with off-topic discussions turning to abuse.

[Cabbige Savage]

Anyway, if you've all quite finished calling each other paedos, todays geography lesson from Suella Braverman...



 

 

 

Is bad to defend to defend peado apologist?

This could be awkward look for my firend 

Regards 
Cabbige 

[One Sunny Day]

Anyway, if you've all quite finished calling each other paedos, todays geography lesson from Suella Braverman...

 

[Cabbige Savage]

Lucky Lee we have zero account of islamik attack in Polska 

Winna winna carp dinna 
​​​​​​

[Cabbige Savage]

How can indicating that the Cologne sex attacks were clearly an organised act of provocation with all the features of bring a KGB special op be “enabling nonces”?

Of course it isn’t but suggesting it is is definitely supportive of the special operation.

Yes firend, neva forget the SpEshiaL oPeRashioNs 

[goose]

I’m not surprised you don’t get it.

[Hammer and Pickle]

How can indicating that the Cologne sex attacks were clearly an organised act of provocation with all the features of bring a KGB special op be “enabling nonces”?

Of course it isn’t but suggesting it is is definitely supportive of the special operation.

[Cabbige Savage]

juss becose he call sub Saharans n***ers does not mean he is a raysist.
Or say Nye cologne sex attaks by Islamiks was really by Putin does not meen he is nonce enabler. 

​​​​​​Or freton to kill whoers - that was Jesuits fawlt.

Or say he close down who with the dossyyay - JRM make him do that. 

GOOD TIMES

[goose]

Brilliant.

So Pickle the weasel plays down grooming & rape of children, gets called out for it and then runs crying to the mods.

[stubbo-admin]

The abusive posts have been deleted. Please stick to topic and don't make unfounded allegations against members...if you can back up a claim then do so by quoting the post that demonstrates it.

This thread is being given significantly more leeway for sensitive discussion than others, so you engage at your own risk of being offended by response, but baseless abuse and allegations will still result in sanctions for those doing so.

Final warning for all.

[SurfaceAgentX2Zero]

Indeed. Now, back to the point in question.

[Hammer and Pickle]

One wonders why Kemi, so recently in government, did not take the action that she is calling for now?

Why? Maybe because she was in the party in government at the time with a policy to benefit from the OUTRAGE as much as possible.

[,]

One wonders why Kemi, so recently in government, did not take the action that she is calling for now?

[Hammer and Pickle]

I see there is actually quite a lot of cross-party consensus on Musk trying to stoke another moral panic about the grooming gangs. 

Would anyone like provide a little more detail and clarity on what lies he has actually been telling before I have to find out myself?

[Leavemyarcelona]

Musk absolutely shredding Starmer and Labour. What a joy it is to watch and hear them squirm

[Hammer and Pickle]

I have always said NATO members need to spend more to strengthen the transatlantic alliance and keep common cause as free democracies.

It pretty much goes without saying.

 

All members should pay their fair share. Americans  “pay” more because they will be the ones who have the military infrastructure. I think to Trumps point, is it fair that the US pay two thirds of the defence budget? I think an equitable split is 50/50 North America vs Europe maybe, especially as threat of conflict is likelier to come from the east

It’s not just a question of how much but what kind of spending. A re-arming Poland currently relies far too heavily on US command and control systems and intelligence and will have to develop its own tech and structures together with Germany and the UK. France is already a land power with its own nuclear capabilities but is currently going through a severe public debt crises; its real involvement in a stronger European arm of NATO is far from automatic. However, I think the next German administration will be looking to re-arm to stimulate its flagging industrial base, with all the political consequences that entails.

[nychammer]

I have always said NATO members need to spend more to strengthen the transatlantic alliance and keep common cause as free democracies.

It pretty much goes without saying.

 

All members should pay their fair share. Americans  “pay” more because they will be the ones who have the military infrastructure. I think to Trumps point, is it fair that the US pay two thirds of the defence budget? I think an equitable split is 50/50 North America vs Europe maybe, especially as threat of conflict is likelier to come from the east