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Is West Ham a bigger club than Newcastle United?
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Leonard Hatred
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Far Cough UKunt
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Re: Is West Ham a bigger club than Newcastle United?
easthammer wrote: ↑19 Mar 2025, 17:11 Is West Ham a bigger club than Newcastle United? The answer depends on how you judge it.
If you base the assessment on the all-time playing success in terms of trophies and titles won then Newcastle are 9th in the list whereas West Ham are 17th.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_f ... onours_won
But most of Newcastle's success was in the early 1900's and West Ham have been more successful in European Football.
Of course, playing success of years gone by might not be the best way to judge it. For example, Bobby Moore along with Hurst and Peters ensured that West Ham were the focus of worldwide interest for at least a time. Not sure teams like Wolves, Sheffield Wednesday or West Brom (all of which feature above us in historical playing success) are as well known as West Ham internationally.
Wolves had the Billy Wright and one of the Beverley Sisters (can't remember which one) a prominent news item at the time. Plus they were a decent team in Billy Wright's time.
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easthammer
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Re: Is West Ham a bigger club than Newcastle United?
Is West Ham a bigger club than Newcastle United? The answer depends on how you judge it.
If you base the assessment on the all-time playing success in terms of trophies and titles won then Newcastle are 9th in the list whereas West Ham are 17th.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_f ... onours_won
But most of Newcastle's success was in the early 1900's and West Ham have been more successful in European Football.
Of course, playing success of years gone by might not be the best way to judge it. For example, Bobby Moore along with Hurst and Peters ensured that West Ham were the focus of worldwide interest for at least a time. Not sure teams like Wolves, Sheffield Wednesday or West Brom (all of which feature above us in historical playing success) are as well known as West Ham internationally.
If you base the assessment on the all-time playing success in terms of trophies and titles won then Newcastle are 9th in the list whereas West Ham are 17th.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_f ... onours_won
But most of Newcastle's success was in the early 1900's and West Ham have been more successful in European Football.
Of course, playing success of years gone by might not be the best way to judge it. For example, Bobby Moore along with Hurst and Peters ensured that West Ham were the focus of worldwide interest for at least a time. Not sure teams like Wolves, Sheffield Wednesday or West Brom (all of which feature above us in historical playing success) are as well known as West Ham internationally.
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Mad Ferret
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Re: Is West Ham a bigger club than Newcastle United?
Mad Ferret" wrote: ↑19 Mar 2025, 14:41Pub Bigot" wrote: ↑19 Mar 2025, 14:29As much as it pains me as an East Ender, West Ham are an Essex club both historically (pre-1965 London boundary move) and in support.Much like Spurs and Brentford being a Middlesex clubs pre-1965, and Palace being Surrey.
All were always considered to be London clubs.
You might be right. I got GPT to do a deep dive for me and this is what it responded with;
Identity in West Ham, Leyton, and Stratford Before 1965
Before the 1965 London boundary changes (establishment of Greater London), areas like West Ham, Leyton, and Stratford sat just outside the old County of London. They were officially part of Essex, yet closely tied to London’s East End in culture and daily life. Residents navigated a dual identity: administratively Essex, but socially and economically very much East Londoners. Below we explore how local government status, everyday language, football culture, and working-class community life influenced their sense of identity, and how this shifted around 1965.
Administrative Boundaries: Essex Roots, London Fringe
For centuries these districts belonged to Essex. West Ham (including Stratford and surrounding districts) was an Essexparish and later a County Borough within Essex. Leyton similarly was part of the ancient County of Essex and became a municipal borough in 1926. The River Lea marked the historic boundary between London and Essex – “between 1889 and 1965, the lower Lea was the eastern boundary of the County of London with Essex.”Despite being outside the County of London, these areas were urbanized and contiguous with the London metropolis. By the late 19th century, West Ham’s population boomed as it became part of London’s continuous built-up area. A 1920s description even counted Canning Town and Silvertown (in West Ham) as part of “Greater London,” acknowledging that these Essex districts were considered part of London’s East End. In short, administratively they were Essex, but functionally they were “metropolitan Essex,” integrated with London’s growth.
Local Terminology in Addresses and Newspapers
In everyday usage and the media, identity could tilt either way depending on context. Official documents and local newspapers often used the Essex designation. For example, a 1917 report on the Silvertown explosion located it in "Silvertown in West Ham, Essex (now part of Newham)."At the same time, postal addresses and public services treated these districts as part of London. West Ham and Leyton were included in the “London” postal districts (the E postcodes) well before 1965. Similarly, double-decker London buses served these areas. Victorians and Edwardians commonly appended "London" to addresses across the whole built-up area, even beyond the official county line.
Football Culture: East London Pride vs Essex Heritage
Local football clubs played a big role in shaping popular identity. West Ham United, founded in 1895 as Thames Ironworks FC in the Essex county borough of West Ham, has long billed itself as an East London club. The club’s history notes its Essex origins but emphasizes that “since 1965 the area has been part of [the] London Borough of Newham.” Fans and the press often call West Ham “the East London club,” highlighting its East End roots and Cockney supporter base.Leyton Orient provides a similar example. The club’s very name Orient was reportedly chosen to give it an East identity(“orient” meaning east) when it was based in Clapton. Orient started in Clapton (just inside the London boundary) but moved to Leyton (Essex) in 1937. Fans and local media have long seen Orient as an East London team, participating in East London derbies with West Ham.
Working-Class East End Culture and Community
The populations of West Ham, Stratford, Canning Town, Leyton, and surrounding districts were overwhelmingly working-class, with many employed in docks, railways, factories, and other industries of London’s East End. They shared in the Cockney culture – accents, slang, and a proud, tight-knit community ethos associated with the East End of London. Sociologically, these folks were often viewed (and viewed themselves) as “East Enders,” indistinguishable from those just across the Lea in places like Bow or Poplar.Even though a purist might say the “East End” traditionally stopped at the county line (the River Lea), in practice the East End’s spirit spilled over.
Identity Shifts Around the 1965 Boundary Changes
By the early 1960s, it was clear that the old boundaries no longer matched reality. The London Government Act 1963merged West Ham and East Ham to form the London Borough of Newham (from 1965) and merged Leyton with Walthamstow and Chingford to form London Borough of Waltham Forest. In the lead-up, local opinions did surface. Some in outer Essex (e.g. in Romford or Ilford) were hesitant to become “Londoners” and lose their Essex status. In West Ham and Stratford, however, incorporation into Greater London likely validated an identity people already felt.After 1965, administrative and postal identities aligned with cultural ones. Addresses changed from, say, “Stratford, Essex” to “Stratford, London E15”. The use of “Essex” for these areas faded over time. Today, a West Ham supporter from Stratford might only recall their Essex heritage as a historical footnote, if at all, while proudly calling themselves an East Londoner.
Summary
Before 1965, people in West Ham, Leyton, Stratford, and similar districts balanced Essex roots with East London identity. On paper they were Essex residents, governed by Essex institutions, and proudly supporting county endeavors like the Essex regiment or Essex county cricket. In daily life they were also East Londoners/East Enders, part of London’s urban tapestry in accent, work, and play. Local government labels and newspaper datelines said "Essex," but the buses, postal addresses, and football rivalries said "London."As the boundary changes approached, the identity tilt was already toward London. The reforms of 1965 simply acknowledged what residents felt: that they were Londoners by community and lifestyle.
Identity in West Ham, Leyton, and Stratford Before 1965
Before the 1965 London boundary changes (establishment of Greater London), areas like West Ham, Leyton, and Stratford sat just outside the old County of London. They were officially part of Essex, yet closely tied to London’s East End in culture and daily life. Residents navigated a dual identity: administratively Essex, but socially and economically very much East Londoners. Below we explore how local government status, everyday language, football culture, and working-class community life influenced their sense of identity, and how this shifted around 1965.
Administrative Boundaries: Essex Roots, London Fringe
For centuries these districts belonged to Essex. West Ham (including Stratford and surrounding districts) was an Essexparish and later a County Borough within Essex. Leyton similarly was part of the ancient County of Essex and became a municipal borough in 1926. The River Lea marked the historic boundary between London and Essex – “between 1889 and 1965, the lower Lea was the eastern boundary of the County of London with Essex.”Despite being outside the County of London, these areas were urbanized and contiguous with the London metropolis. By the late 19th century, West Ham’s population boomed as it became part of London’s continuous built-up area. A 1920s description even counted Canning Town and Silvertown (in West Ham) as part of “Greater London,” acknowledging that these Essex districts were considered part of London’s East End. In short, administratively they were Essex, but functionally they were “metropolitan Essex,” integrated with London’s growth.
Local Terminology in Addresses and Newspapers
In everyday usage and the media, identity could tilt either way depending on context. Official documents and local newspapers often used the Essex designation. For example, a 1917 report on the Silvertown explosion located it in "Silvertown in West Ham, Essex (now part of Newham)."At the same time, postal addresses and public services treated these districts as part of London. West Ham and Leyton were included in the “London” postal districts (the E postcodes) well before 1965. Similarly, double-decker London buses served these areas. Victorians and Edwardians commonly appended "London" to addresses across the whole built-up area, even beyond the official county line.
Football Culture: East London Pride vs Essex Heritage
Local football clubs played a big role in shaping popular identity. West Ham United, founded in 1895 as Thames Ironworks FC in the Essex county borough of West Ham, has long billed itself as an East London club. The club’s history notes its Essex origins but emphasizes that “since 1965 the area has been part of [the] London Borough of Newham.” Fans and the press often call West Ham “the East London club,” highlighting its East End roots and Cockney supporter base.Leyton Orient provides a similar example. The club’s very name Orient was reportedly chosen to give it an East identity(“orient” meaning east) when it was based in Clapton. Orient started in Clapton (just inside the London boundary) but moved to Leyton (Essex) in 1937. Fans and local media have long seen Orient as an East London team, participating in East London derbies with West Ham.
Working-Class East End Culture and Community
The populations of West Ham, Stratford, Canning Town, Leyton, and surrounding districts were overwhelmingly working-class, with many employed in docks, railways, factories, and other industries of London’s East End. They shared in the Cockney culture – accents, slang, and a proud, tight-knit community ethos associated with the East End of London. Sociologically, these folks were often viewed (and viewed themselves) as “East Enders,” indistinguishable from those just across the Lea in places like Bow or Poplar.Even though a purist might say the “East End” traditionally stopped at the county line (the River Lea), in practice the East End’s spirit spilled over.
Identity Shifts Around the 1965 Boundary Changes
By the early 1960s, it was clear that the old boundaries no longer matched reality. The London Government Act 1963merged West Ham and East Ham to form the London Borough of Newham (from 1965) and merged Leyton with Walthamstow and Chingford to form London Borough of Waltham Forest. In the lead-up, local opinions did surface. Some in outer Essex (e.g. in Romford or Ilford) were hesitant to become “Londoners” and lose their Essex status. In West Ham and Stratford, however, incorporation into Greater London likely validated an identity people already felt.After 1965, administrative and postal identities aligned with cultural ones. Addresses changed from, say, “Stratford, Essex” to “Stratford, London E15”. The use of “Essex” for these areas faded over time. Today, a West Ham supporter from Stratford might only recall their Essex heritage as a historical footnote, if at all, while proudly calling themselves an East Londoner.
Summary
Before 1965, people in West Ham, Leyton, Stratford, and similar districts balanced Essex roots with East London identity. On paper they were Essex residents, governed by Essex institutions, and proudly supporting county endeavors like the Essex regiment or Essex county cricket. In daily life they were also East Londoners/East Enders, part of London’s urban tapestry in accent, work, and play. Local government labels and newspaper datelines said "Essex," but the buses, postal addresses, and football rivalries said "London."As the boundary changes approached, the identity tilt was already toward London. The reforms of 1965 simply acknowledged what residents felt: that they were Londoners by community and lifestyle.
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Mad Ferret
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Re: Is West Ham a bigger club than Newcastle United?
Pub Bigot" wrote: ↑19 Mar 2025, 14:29As much as it pains me as an East Ender, West Ham are an Essex club both historically (pre-1965 London boundary move) and in support.
Much like Spurs and Brentford being a Middlesex clubs pre-1965, and Palace being Surrey.
All were always considered to be London clubs.
All were always considered to be London clubs.
Re: Is West Ham a bigger club than Newcastle United?
Steady wrote: ↑19 Mar 2025, 13:30Council Scum" wrote: ↑19 Mar 2025, 12:14 Population of Northumberland is 324,362
Population of London Borough of Newham 387,576
If you want a more accurate reflection of size.Percentage of Northumberland citizens that follow Newcastle is probably 90%. Percentage of Newham citizens that follow West Ham is probably 10%
You're being too kind!
In serious, we get our support throughout the south-east mostly, largely Essex.
The fact we do have the support base we do for a club that's fairly unsuccessful and shares a city with other big clubs, it shows we are a big club. I assume the origins of the strong local support comes is because of where we're situated and the local people having a team to cheer.
As much as it pains me as an East Ender, West Ham are an Essex club both historically (pre-1965 London boundary move) and in support.
In serious, we get our support throughout the south-east mostly, largely Essex.
The fact we do have the support base we do for a club that's fairly unsuccessful and shares a city with other big clubs, it shows we are a big club. I assume the origins of the strong local support comes is because of where we're situated and the local people having a team to cheer.
As much as it pains me as an East Ender, West Ham are an Essex club both historically (pre-1965 London boundary move) and in support.
Re: Is West Ham a bigger club than Newcastle United?
Council Scum" wrote: ↑19 Mar 2025, 12:14 Population of Northumberland is 324,362
Population of London Borough of Newham 387,576
If you want a more accurate reflection of size.
Percentage of Northumberland citizens that follow Newcastle is probably 90%. Percentage of Newham citizens that follow West Ham is probably 10%
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Council Scum
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Re: Is West Ham a bigger club than Newcastle United?
Population of Northumberland is 324,362
Population of London Borough of Newham 387,576
If you want a more accurate reflection of size.
Population of London Borough of Newham 387,576
If you want a more accurate reflection of size.
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Fauxstralian
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Re: Is West Ham a bigger club than Newcastle United?
Newcastle achieve what they do as a one club city
We get the same crowds in competition with multiple London clubs …plus all the bedwetting Liverpool & Man U fans that infest the capital
We get the same crowds in competition with multiple London clubs …plus all the bedwetting Liverpool & Man U fans that infest the capital
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BRANDED
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Re: Is West Ham a bigger club than Newcastle United?
OK, here's a thought. Wrexham have a huge American following due to the owners and the Welcome to Wrexham tv show. West Ham are well known world wide for Hooligan movies. As a measure of bigness Wrexham are probably bigger than Newcastle for a certain demographic. As far as live crowd West Ham get around 55-60,000 supporters live. Newcastle around 50K. I think we are fairly equal with them in terms of filling a stadium. Financially we are pretty similar. In terms of cock sizes we are way ahead. In terms of intelligence there's no contest. Currently their team, manager and owners are ahead of us.
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Tomshardware
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Re: Is West Ham a bigger club than Newcastle United?
I'd say that us and Newcastle are teams that have a cult following. Before the Arabs money we were also similar to Man City.
Re: Is West Ham a bigger club than Newcastle United?
There are all kinds of different barometers you can use to measure the size of a club, and to a large extent it doesn’t really matter.
We are currently behind Villa and Newcastle, but over the last 50 or 60 years there’s not much between us. The same could be said about Everton. I think the four of us occupy the 7-10 places if there was a Big 10. I wouldn’t put Forest in that category. Apart from the Clough years, they haven’t done a lot. They spent more than 20 years out of the Premier League. Similar with Leeds. Leicester have won more than us in the last 30 years but I wouldn’t put them above us.
In the all time Premier League table, we are tenth. In the all time ever Top Flight table we are twelth, behind Sunderland and West Brom, but both of them have been shit for years.
Just goes to show how criminal it is that we have won so little in the last 40 years.
We are currently behind Villa and Newcastle, but over the last 50 or 60 years there’s not much between us. The same could be said about Everton. I think the four of us occupy the 7-10 places if there was a Big 10. I wouldn’t put Forest in that category. Apart from the Clough years, they haven’t done a lot. They spent more than 20 years out of the Premier League. Similar with Leeds. Leicester have won more than us in the last 30 years but I wouldn’t put them above us.
In the all time Premier League table, we are tenth. In the all time ever Top Flight table we are twelth, behind Sunderland and West Brom, but both of them have been shit for years.
Just goes to show how criminal it is that we have won so little in the last 40 years.
Re: Is West Ham a bigger club than Newcastle United?
Not really bothered. I think we should look at the likes of Bournemouth, Brighton, Crystal Palace and Fulham. All smaller than us but, higher in the Premier League than us and all still in the FA Cup. Two additions to that list are Villa and Forest but, they have both won the predecessor of the Champion's League so........Nah both bigger than us!
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Pi Alpha Nu
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Re: Is West Ham a bigger club than Newcastle United?
Remember when the so called Big 6 tried to be part of the Super League... I was pleased West Ham had nothing to do with it. The big team tag can fuck off football will be better without it.
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Far Cough UKunt
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Re: Is West Ham a bigger club than Newcastle United?
You don't have a point, West Ham on average have bigger crowds than your beloved Spurs however you want to spin it and so does Arsenal.
Re: Is West Ham a bigger club than Newcastle United?
Far Cough UKunt" wrote: ↑17 Mar 2025, 10:05 I'll challenger your point alright, practically everything you post on this board is fucking Spurs related. How the fuck the mods haven't banned you along with the other Spurs melt, I don't know?
You still haven't addressed the issue, you bellend!
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Far Cough UKunt
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Re: Is West Ham a bigger club than Newcastle United?
I'll challenger your point alright, practically everything you post on this board is fucking Spurs related. How the fuck the mods haven't banned you along with the other Spurs melt, I don't know?
Re: Is West Ham a bigger club than Newcastle United?
Far Cough UKunt" wrote: ↑17 Mar 2025, 10:01 Turn it in you Spurs cսnt and quit sending me Bendermail.
I would have preferred it if you challenged my point rather than getting personal!
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Far Cough UKunt
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Re: Is West Ham a bigger club than Newcastle United?
Turn it in you Spurs cսnt and quit sending me Bendermail.
Re: Is West Ham a bigger club than Newcastle United?
I always thought that the amount of fans we have going to the games is nothing more than misleading when comparing to other clubs.
Our cheapest season ticket price is £345 compared to Newcastle's of £662. Furthermore comparing this to Spurs which is £856 (all 2024/25 prices). Being London based, Spurs is probably the fairer comparison.
What would happen if we increased prices on par to Spurs, I very much doubt we would get the same interest?
Our cheapest season ticket price is £345 compared to Newcastle's of £662. Furthermore comparing this to Spurs which is £856 (all 2024/25 prices). Being London based, Spurs is probably the fairer comparison.
What would happen if we increased prices on par to Spurs, I very much doubt we would get the same interest?