Nuno Out

[northbankfrank]

2,500 posts by the end of the season?

[Massive Attack]

Wilson still is a proper Striker. He just needs to play regularly from the start. Agreed on not having any stupid half measures.

[El Scorchio]

Well according to the bbc website he ‘will be backed’ in January so he’s not going anywhere at least for now. I do make that the least bad option personally given our situation provided he is indeed backed fully and not with stupid half measures like a freebie from Brighton’s reserves or a past it cripple who was once a proper striker. 

[theaxeman]

Apparently, we've bought 56 and only 2 have gone on to score 20 goals in their West Ham career! Not in a season, their entire West Ham career!!!!

 

Carroll, C Cole and Sakho have all scored 20+  career goals for West Ham. 

Premier league goals, but the point stands I think.

[Massive Attack]

You could gift Nuno Harry Kane and he'd still waste him mainly on the Bench for the occasional trot out late in the 2nd half. 

[Sir Alf]

Part of me thinks / hopes that not having a physical, reasonably quick central striker ( target man ) is a huge part of why improvements elsewhere under Nuno ( set pieces, midfield strength) have delivered very little results wise.  But, Imo, the central defence and now LB is an obvious/material weakness. But the squad also needs another good midfielder who can carry the ball, have some pace and physicality. Paqueta remains an issue too. An alternative creatively in midfield. Can we get or do we have someone who works tirelessly for the team, can compete physically etc. but also create chances from midfield without the trade off in lost possession / cheap turnovers and generalself indulgence.

Just too much to fix in Jan with our budget but an effective central striker is critical to have any chance of picking up a few more points thats for sure. Imho of course

[goose]

Fucking hell! These are your examples? If you have to go back 29 years to include Hartson and Kitson and only include 2 current players, one of whom was clearly making step forward in his career and the other of whom would only initially sign on loan  I'd say that you've pretty much proved my point

We are aren't deep in relegation trouble every year. You don't sign tonnes of players in the Jan window either. We can sign loan players now, so why wouldnt they count? They still come in and make a difference.

They are examples of players brought in when we were deep in the shit. Good players who have come in and improved the squad. It's entirely possible.

 

Bilic was a summer signing
Reiper was a punt who'd never played overseas - and we were far from marooned when he joined
Hartson & Kitson, absolutely
Demba Ba signed because he'd failed medicals at 2 other clubs
Lucas Neil, yes
Boa Morte? ahem...
Jarrod and Soucek I've already covered. I'll give you three players in 30 years

 

 

Righto, so if a player has not played in the PL they dont count? Of course Reiper counts.

BTW BIlic signed in January '96 and made his debut away at Spurs on a monday night.

So Bilic, Reiper, Ba, Hartson, Kitson, Bowen and Soucek. 
4 relegation struggles and we have signed 7 players who all improved the squad. 3 or the 4 times we stayed up in no small part due to those players.


but apparently those players dont exist.............

[Westside]

Apparently, we've bought 56 and only 2 have gone on to score 20 goals in their West Ham career! Not in a season, their entire West Ham career!!!!

 

 

Carroll, C Cole and Sakho have all scored 20+  career goals for West Ham. 

[onsideman]

I'd say its more delusional to assume better players don't exist and aren't interested.

With that attitude we'd never have signed Bilic, Reiper, Hartson, Kitson, Demba Ba, Lucas Neil, Luis Boa Morte, Matthew Upson, Jarrod Bowen, Tomas Soucek etc etc.

Fucking hell! These are your examples? If you have to go back 29 years to include Hartson and Kitson and only include 2 current players, one of whom was clearly making step forward in his career and the other of whom would only initially sign on loan  I'd say that you've pretty much proved my point

We are aren't deep in relegation trouble every year. You don't sign tonnes of players in the Jan window either. We can sign loan players now, so why wouldnt they count? They still come in and make a difference.

They are examples of players brought in when we were deep in the shit. Good players who have come in and improved the squad. It's entirely possible.

 

 

Bilic was a summer signing
Reiper was a punt who'd never played overseas - and we were far from marooned when he joined
Hartson & Kitson, absolutely
Demba Ba signed because he'd failed medicals at 2 other clubs
Lucas Neil, yes
Boa Morte? ahem...
Jarrod and Soucek I've already covered. I'll give you three players in 30 years

[Massive Attack]

Then we deserve what we are currently getting rooted in the bottom 3 managed by Nuno effectively 6 points cut adrift. That is on Nuno as much as the Board for creating that. No one is going to convince me that Leeds promoted Squad is so much far superior to ours yet they are effectively 8 points away from us now. Eyes are fixed firmly on Nuno for achieving that cavernous gap.  

[scott_d]

Compared to Potter and Loppy, Nuno has improved our performances.

Sadly, it' still not enough and it looks like there has been some real damage done since we dropped Moyes and shopped for replacements in the sale rail.

Sacking Nuno isn't the answer unless it means investing in a replacement, but we all know that's not an option so the only alternative is to back him in the transfer window.

But again, what is the likelihood that Sullivan allows Nuno to bring in the players he wants?

It's a fucking mess and it's not really Nuno's fault.







 

 

Because of how Nuno has poorly mismanaged the results leading up to the Transfer window opening, no one decent will want to join now. We are 6 points away from safety as it currently stands. Players will not want to come. Hence why our only real longshot chance is to get Strand Larsen for around £40M muted that Wolves would accept as they know they are a total lost cause, whereas we have a small chance of still surviving but have to yet again pay well over the odds for a player that risky with confidence currently through the floor. 

A lot of the form since he arrived really is his fault, just as much as BS and Potter this season. No way is he blameless getting an easy ride.

What we need is a charismatic man manager that will inspire this anxiety ridden pussies, that's about our only hope and Nuno aint that man to inspire them in to reacting. The evidence after 13 games is undeniable. *folds arms looking shell-shocked defeated and gormless*

 

 

I agree, he's not blameless and has contributed to our current league position, but we are not here because of Nuno.
The squad he has been left with, that was assembled by a mixture of Moyes, Lopetegi, Potter, Sullivan and Steidten, with no real strategy or thought behind the style of play, has made his job harder than most.
I still think we are a better team right now, with at least a fraction of identity, than we were under Potter and Lopetegi.  Some of our defeats have been hard luck, individual mistakes, rather than some of the absolute shit-shows we saw under the previous 2.

But there is no way that Sullivan will appoint a manager with any kind of personality or character.  

[theaxeman]

Apparently, we've bought 56 and only 2 have gone on to score 20 goals in their West Ham career! Not in a season, their entire West Ham career!!!!

[Massive Attack]

The point with Wilson is he has to start as he is our only recognised, central striking option and getting ahead in games. We know he cannot play 90 mins and Nuno has been approaching it the wrong way around arguably especially in home games. Not sure what his thinking is? That the opposition will get tired and Wilson coming on late exploits that? Seems he didnt consider if our players might get even more tired and more likely to concede( exactly what happened to Scarles who was  )?  Or is it that he wants a midfield 4 to start games so only 2 up top? At home whatever it is, it has failed

 

 

And doesn't this post just typify his baffling decisions when fans are so confused about his thinking that you've felt the need to ask 4 different questions regarding Wilson. It's more simpler than that. The weirdo needs sectioning as none of it makes any sense.

[goose]

And there you have it.
We have a squad as good as anyone in the bottom half and we will be OK with one defensive and one attacking leader joining a seriously relagation-threatened club (as long as they are good enough and despite not having been able to sign either in multiple transfer windows over multiple years with bigger budgets and better prospects) and can add Antonio to the mix (as long as long as he proves his fitness). Borderline delusional

I'd say its more delusional to assume better players don't exist and aren't interested.

With that attitude we'd never have signed Bilic, Reiper, Hartson, Kitson, Demba Ba, Lucas Neil, Luis Boa Morte, Matthew Upson, Jarrod Bowen, Tomas Soucek etc etc.

Fucking hell! These are your examples? If you have to go back 29 years to include Hartson and Kitson and only include 2 current players, one of whom was clearly making step forward in his career and the other of whom would only initially sign on loan  I'd say that you've pretty much proved my point

We are aren't deep in relegation trouble every year. You don't sign tonnes of players in the Jan window either. We can sign loan players now, so why wouldnt they count? They still come in and make a difference.

They are examples of players brought in when we were deep in the shit. Good players who have come in and improved the squad. It's entirely possible.

[Sir Alf]

The point with Wilson is he has to start as he is our only recognised, central striking option and getting ahead in games. We know he cannot play 90 mins and Nuno has been approaching it the wrong way around arguably especially in home games. Not sure what his thinking is? That the opposition will get tired and Wilson coming on late exploits that? Seems he didnt consider if our players might get even more tired and more likely to concede( exactly what happened to Scarles who was  )?  Or is it that he wants a midfield 4 to start games so only 2 up top? At home whatever it is, it has failed

[onsideman]

If we want any sort of improvement up front we have to go out and get a bona fide starting calibre striker who will get picked to start every game by this manager or any other who may be stupid or desperate enough to take the job should it become available. 

We have bought over 50 of 'strikers'. A significant amount of those were 'bona fide' when we bought them but did nothing for us. And many of those left to go and perform well at the clubs they left for. So not convinced it's as simple as 'buying' a striker. But not having a one at all is not the way forward either. Playing Bowen where he is most productive is essential. I would just rotate between Soucek and Wilson up front at this point. I would put any money into shoring up the defence.

Bringng on Soucek for Wilson cost us 2 points at Bournemouth

[wils]

If we want any sort of improvement up front we have to go out and get a bona fide starting calibre striker who will get picked to start every game by this manager or any other who may be stupid or desperate enough to take the job should it become available. 

We have bought over 50 of 'strikers'. A significant amount of those were 'bona fide' when we bought them but did nothing for us. And many of those left to go and perform well at the clubs they left for. So not convinced it's as simple as 'buying' a striker. But not having a one at all is not the way forward either. Playing Bowen where he is most productive is essential. I would just rotate between Soucek and Wilson up front at this point. I would put any money into shoring up the defence.

[boleyn8420]

Here's a fucking clue Nuno you absolute cսnt. The last time we won against Burnley and Newcastle Wilson started. Just do that, you complete waste of fucking space. Sack him now

[onsideman]

again it's a given that he'd prove his fitness before being offered any kind of deal.

And there you have it.
We have a squad as good as anyone in the bottom half and we will be OK with one defensive and one attacking leader joining a seriously relagation-threatened club (as long as they are good enough and despite not having been able to sign either in multiple transfer windows over multiple years with bigger budgets and better prospects) and can add Antonio to the mix (as long as long as he proves his fitness). Borderline delusional

I'd say its more delusional to assume better players don't exist and aren't interested.

With that attitude we'd never have signed Bilic, Reiper, Hartson, Kitson, Demba Ba, Lucas Neil, Luis Boa Morte, Matthew Upson, Jarrod Bowen, Tomas Soucek etc etc.

Fucking hell! These are your examples? If you have to go back 29 years to include Hartson and Kitson and only include 2 current players, one of whom was clearly making step forward in his career and the other of whom would only initially sign on loan  I'd say that you've pretty much proved my point

[Jaan Kenbrovin]

I never wanted Callum Wilson but as our only available option as striker, he has to play. It’s no good playing Bowen out of position as it weakens our game.

It’s incredible that Nuno is completely oblivious to this. But then this is a bloke that has continually tinkered with line ups and subs that make little sense.

 

[El Scorchio]

Again, don't overly focus on what he could necessarily offer the Team just on the pitch (although I disagree he wouldn't add anything when called upon), it's also what he offers in and around the Club behind the scenes as well. He's not going to be a disruptive influence and would be the right character to make sure people act professional, that shit rubs off, especially for young Pros just starting out. The message it sent out however I think was damaging as his first move upon walking in to the Club. That shit is proper mental management that saud a lot about Nuno and didn't like it. If say Ward-Prowse was a known nightmare then OK I can understand it but Ward-Prowse? Not a fucking chance he deserved being launched out the door amd I suspect many of the current Squad have felt likewise. It certainly aint a move that's going to ingratiate himself to other players if that's how he treats someone like Ward-Prowse. Then I look at how his managed Wilson, then a pattern emerges not being a one-off of oddball moves.

 

JWP’s high character wasn’t rubbing off under Potter. Two out of three managers deemed him not good enough and Potter who did rely on him is widely acknowledged as the worst manager in our history. It was brutal to just drop JWP like that but it’s hardly had a detrimental effect. At the time it was seen by basically everyone as doing what was needed. 

I don’t believe anyone else would have managed Wilson much differently through the circumstances of both his fitness and contract structure. Again he is not a player who can play every minute of every game and at the time Nuno came in it was obvious he’d try Fullkrug first as would any manager and everyone was at the time clamouring to see Marshall over Wilson which happened and was clearly not the answer in hindsight. It has transpired he’s the least shit option vs a kid who isn’t ready or a Fuckjng cowardly wantaway cսnt but he was clearly brought to be no more than a bitpart player and backup to the cowardly wantaway cսnt. 

If we get a proper capable striker in the transfer window and they and Wilson both stay fit then I’m absolutely positive the manager has a striker on the pitch every minute of every game going forward from then. 

6 games under the other hapless clown Potter aint a barometer for anything. He uses to make decent players at Chelsea look like wank as well remember. I absolutely did not agree ostracising Ward-Prowse was smart management the way that he has and I also banged the drum at the time that our best Premier League Striker at the Club that should be starting most of our games is Wilson even when Fullkunt was fit to play. And so it has proved. 

 

 

Wilson being the ‘best’ premier league striker at the club says basically nothing though really in real terms does it and it’s hardly a feather in his cap when the only competition is a youth player. He’s the only option. And he wouldn’t start or be first choice for a single other premier league team or even be second choice for several and not should he be starting for any premier league team.  If he were the Wilson of 2022 then absolutely it would be a crime to not have him play every minute, but it’s almost 2026 and he’s slow and broken and he’s not a secret weapon languishing in the bench like Tevez when Curbs wouldn’t play him. He’s not fit to be the first choice striker for a premier league team and him playing more will change basically nothing. There is a reason he took a pay as you play deal with a team who were looking in massive trouble in the summer already. He had no one else after him so his agent managed to palm him off on the only moron stupid enough to entertain it. He should be a backup and nothing more. 

If we want any sort of improvement up front we have to go out and get a bona fide starting calibre striker who will get picked to start every game by this manager or any other who may be stupid or desperate enough to take the job should it become available. 

[goose]

"Antonio off the bench is a better option than Fullkrug or trying to play Paqueta through the middle". 


Although neither of the alternatives are remotely pleasing, you're basing this on not having seen this nearly 36 year old kick a ball since a traumatic compund fracture of his leg 13 months ago, right?

again it's a given that he'd prove his fitness before being offered any kind of deal.

And there you have it.
We have a squad as good as anyone in the bottom half and we will be OK with one defensive and one attacking leader joining a seriously relagation-threatened club (as long as they are good enough and despite not having been able to sign either in multiple transfer windows over multiple years with bigger budgets and better prospects) and can add Antonio to the mix (as long as long as he proves his fitness). Borderline delusional

I'd say its more delusional to assume better players don't exist and aren't interested.

With that attitude we'd never have signed Bilic, Reiper, Hartson, Kitson, Demba Ba, Lucas Neil, Luis Boa Morte, Matthew Upson, Jarrod Bowen, Tomas Soucek etc etc.

[onsideman]

"Antonio off the bench is a better option than Fullkrug or trying to play Paqueta through the middle". 


Although neither of the alternatives are remotely pleasing, you're basing this on not having seen this nearly 36 year old kick a ball since a traumatic compund fracture of his leg 13 months ago, right?

again it's a given that he'd prove his fitness before being offered any kind of deal.

And there you have it.
We have a squad as good as anyone in the bottom half and we will be OK with one defensive and one attacking leader joining a seriously relagation-threatened club (as long as they are good enough and despite not having been able to sign either in multiple transfer windows over multiple years with bigger budgets and better prospects) and can add Antonio to the mix (as long as long as he proves his fitness). Borderline delusional

[goose]

"Antonio off the bench is a better option than Fullkrug or trying to play Paqueta through the middle". 


Although neither of the alternatives are remotely pleasing, you're basing this on not having seen this nearly 36 year old kick a ball since a traumatic compund fracture of his leg 13 months ago, right?

again it's a given that he'd prove his fitness before being offered any kind of deal.

[onsideman]

"Antonio off the bench is a better option than Fullkrug or trying to play Paqueta through the middle". 


Although neither of the alternatives are remotely pleasing, you're basing this on not having seen this nearly 36 year old kick a ball since a traumatic compund fracture of his leg 13 months ago, right?

[goose]

 

You need far more than 8 premier league standard players to compete. And even out of those cherry picked 8, we ourselves as a fan base have said countless times Todibo, Summerville, Paqueta aren’t good or consistent enough. Sure they’ll stay in a top division but Bowen and Fernandes and arguably AWB aside none of them have proven themselves to be more than bang average top flight players with any sort of consistency. Max Kilman will also end up at another top division club IF we can get rid of him, but he’s hardly any good, is he? Vlad Coufal ended up at another top division club but barely anyone thought he was good enough when he was playing for us so it’s a very flaky point to argue. 

The only above average proven premier league player we really have is Jarrod Bowen. Fernandes and Magassa may well become that but they arent yet/right now. Paqueta may become that at another club as might Todibo but for us they are just also rans as are the others. Let’s not reinvent them as quality players just to suit an argument when all it is is ignoring the real issue. 

For players who aren’t PL quality they ain’t half played a lot of PL games.

As a manager you cannot control the ownership but you can control the team you pick and how you set them up.

The team available to Nuno is better than 2 wins in 13 matches. Within those 13 we’ve lost to Leeds, Brentford and Fulham.
His decisions and impact on tge players simply hasn’t been good enough.

 

I didn’t say they weren’t premier league quality. I said they were no more than bang average. You need far more than only 3-4 players who are better than bang average. Besides which whether they are PL quality or not, they have to play as there isn’t anyone else. Just putting on the shirt and running around like Irving or Guido or igor doesn’t make them premier league quality despite making them premier league players. They aren’t the same thing. I agree Nuno hasn’t been good enough or got every decision correct but he’s got an absolutely shit collection of players to select from. The only players we have who would be actually coveted by non relegation fodder/bottom third clubs and might actually Italy be regular starters are Bowen, Fernandes, Paqueta and arguably Todibo or AWB. Jury very much out on Magassa and Diouf. That should tell a pretty stark story. What club in the top half is going to want any other player of ours for anything more than to fill out their squads and ride the bench for depth?

Our squad is on a par with Leeds, Brentford maybe even Sunderland. But they have neither the application or organisation those teams have.