West Ham United 25/26 relegation thread

[muskie]

Odds slashed from 5/1 to 7/2.

Watch this space.

I think we're fucked.

[El Scorchio]

Moyes should have walked away with the Conference League trophy
As I get bored of explaining to outsiders he lost 20 of 38 in his second last season & conceded 74 goals with 30% possession in his last 
0-6 v Arsenal 
0-5 v Chelsea & Fulham
2-5 v Palace etc etc

As said the problem wasn’t him going it was Sullivan appointing 3 abysmal managers to follow him

Or maybe the board should have backed Moyes after he won the trophy, the way they did Lopi 12 months later and seen if we really could have progressed forward. 

 

 

To be fair, money was spent. Kudus, Alvarez, JWP and Mav all came in. Trouble was that the money was in retrospect spent very poorly and clearly not all by Moyes. Kudus at least we made SOME money on and in retrospect it doesn't look a TERRIBLE deal now even though it seemed bad business at the time. Alvarez and JWP for one reason or another both turned out to be expensive disasters and huge wastes of money. Mav is just bang average and should be no more than a sub.
To not absolve Moyes though, JWP was clearly his choice even if none of the others were, and it was a shit, short termist one. If Stiedten got Kudus, then he's the only one to come out with even a crumb of credit.

[southbankbornnbred]

Not going to re-engage with the Moyes nonsense. His final season was abysmal at times. As many have already said, we’ve since appointed three abysmal managers - and it’s all because Sullivan is a no-nothing, cheapskate grifter of an owner who is incapable of making decisions that benefit the club (rather than himself).

We will continue to appoint shit managers, with short-term visions and little idea of how to tackle the toughest league in the world, until Sullivan goes - or hands over control of footballing matters.

Moyes, Lopetegui, Potter, Nuno…we’re in this shit - and we WILL be relegated - not because of the terrible managers. But because of the terrible owner who appoints them all. 

[Council Scum]

Moyes should have walked away with the Conference League trophy
As I get bored of explaining to outsiders he lost 20 of 38 in his second last season & conceded 74 goals with 30% possession in his last 
0-6 v Arsenal 
0-5 v Chelsea & Fulham
2-5 v Palace etc etc

As said the problem wasn’t him going it was Sullivan appointing 3 abysmal managers to follow him

Or maybe the board should have backed Moyes after he won the trophy, the way they did Lopi 12 months later and seen if we really could have progressed forward. 

[Vexed]

Before Moyes left we were warned " be carful what you wish for ! ". We finished 9th that season. Up rocks Loppy and we are 13th when he gets the tin tack. Next we finish 14th under Potter. Now under Nuno we are floundering at 18th with relegation staring right at us. Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing?

Moyes started this rot, you fucking no mark

[Fauxstralian]

Moyes should have walked away with the Conference League trophy
As I get bored of explaining to outsiders he lost 20 of 38 in his second last season & conceded 74 goals with 30% possession in his last 
0-6 v Arsenal 
0-5 v Chelsea & Fulham
2-5 v Palace etc etc

As said the problem wasn’t him going it was Sullivan appointing 3 abysmal managers to follow him

[El Scorchio]

I can see Pablo staying given his modest career so far and he could be very good in the champ. Taty I cannot imagine will want that at all at the stage in his career he is. I shouldn't think it'll be hard to get a decent price for him unless he catches a really bad dose of 'west ham' before the end of the season.

[cup of tea]

I wonder what clauses (if any) were put in the two new strikers contracts when they signed. Presumably they aren't on mega money but there must be some stipulations in their contracts WHEN we are relegated? 

I am not going to judge them yet based on what I have seen so far butneedless to say I don't think they are going to be any sort of saviours ecen in the Championship 

[El Scorchio]

Yes.  But once a fucking gain moyes leaving is NOT the fuckign problem

The problem ia thay cսnt sullivan appointing a succession of worse and worse managers

Nobody (NOBODY) wanted lopetegi, his recruitment has ruined this team, he wanted that pathetic coward Kilman, steidten in hindsight wasnt as bad, but made some bad picks, potter has come in and somehow made things worse, then nuno has come into a club at the bottom and started digging even deeper.

I don't want to hear "moyes" again im sick of it

Absolutely. it was time for Moyes to go. The rot had started under him with his crazy squad management, transfer paralysis (I'm putting that mainly down to Sullivan interfering) and negativity BUT the problem as you say was not letting him go but rather appointing dreadful managers and making dreadful decisions afterwards. It boils my blood when outsiders say it's our own fault for Moyes leaving. It's not. It's Sullivan's fault for everything he did and didn't do subsequently.

[fraser]

Before Moyes left we were warned " be carful what you wish for ! ". We finished 9th that season. Up rocks Loppy and we are 13th when he gets the tin tack. Next we finish 14th under Potter. Now under Nuno we are floundering at 18th with relegation staring right at us. Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing?

I agree in hindsight we needed to get rid of Moyes earlier before he started the rot which has now set in. Should have appointed a good manager while we were in Europa and able to attract decent players. 

[Manuel]

Relegation seems nailed on. Cant see us turning this round.

Current 1st team players that could still be here next season:

Hermansen, Soucek, JWP, KWP, Potts, Scarles and Kilman (cant see anyone buying him).

Earthy and Kante could become useful squad members. Casey out on loan at Swansea so maybe can do a job next season.

Would be good if could keep both Magassa and Fernandes but unlikely that we manage to even keep one of them.

Summerville a funny one. Stayed with leeds when they last went down and done really well in that division. Stats are not the best for us plus alot of injuries so no guarantee someone comes in for him.

AWB, Paqueta, Bowen, Diouf and Todibo will be off.

God knows what will happen with the two new strikers. Both were aware that relegation was quite likely when they arrived. Wilson would score alot of goals in the championship if he stayed fit.

Sullivan asks Coufal to come back with his tail between his legs.

Squad will still need major investment to come up first time of asking.

 

 

No harm to shoot the breeze but it's a bit early for all this malarky, there is a lot of water to go under the bridge before August. If we are serious about at least trying to come straight back up we might not see as many of our youngsters as we might think IMO. As you say we will need to buy too, but then you also don't want players that won't be much use in the PL if we do come back. It's going to be messy. 

[Mad Dog]

Yes.  But once a fucking gain moyes leaving is NOT the fuckign problem

The problem ia thay cսnt sullivan appointing a succession of worse and worse managers

Nobody (NOBODY) wanted lopetegi, his recruitment has ruined this team, he wanted that pathetic coward Kilman, steidten in hindsight wasnt as bad, but made some bad picks, potter has come in and somehow made things worse, then nuno has come into a club at the bottom and started digging even deeper.

I don't want to hear "moyes" again im sick of it

[Mad Ferret]

Honestly, I expect us to bounce straight back.

Sullivan will invest heavily to avoid spending more than 1 season down there.

And let's be real, it's a fucking weak league.

[Lato]

Before Moyes left we were warned " be carful what you wish for ! ". We finished 9th that season. Up rocks Loppy and we are 13th when he gets the tin tack. Next we finish 14th under Potter. Now under Nuno we are floundering at 18th with relegation staring right at us. Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing?

[dealcanvey]

Relegation seems nailed on. Cant see us turning this round.

Current 1st team players that could still be here next season:

Hermansen, Soucek, JWP, KWP, Potts, Scarles and Kilman (cant see anyone buying him).

Earthy and Kante could become useful squad members. Casey out on loan at Swansea so maybe can do a job next season.

Would be good if could keep both Magassa and Fernandes but unlikely that we manage to even keep one of them.

Summerville a funny one. Stayed with leeds when they last went down and done really well in that division. Stats are not the best for us plus alot of injuries so no guarantee someone comes in for him.

AWB, Paqueta, Bowen, Diouf and Todibo will be off.

God knows what will happen with the two new strikers. Both were aware that relegation was quite likely when they arrived. Wilson would score alot of goals in the championship if he stayed fit.

Sullivan asks Coufal to come back with his tail between his legs.

Squad will still need major investment to come up first time of asking.

[95 North - Let Yourself Go]

Been on the cards for a few years now. Broken team with little to no quality and zero leadership. Will struggle in the Championship!

[muskie]

We are shit and we are going down.

[Sir Alf]

Spot on COYI. Agree totally. And u did it in less than 3 paragraphs. ( Alf stands back in awe of such a thing) 

Please dont bore off

[Come On You Irons]

Yes the whole pre-season and early season bragging from Sullivan and Brady about "an unprecedented fourteen consecutive seasons in the Premier League" is really being exposed now for the pathetic hubris of what it is.

How many of those 14 seasons have been relegation dog fights? At least half of them. There has only been 5 top 10 finishing positions in fourteen seasons and the average finishing position in the 13 completes seasons is 11th, so bottom half. The average finishing position in the 9 complete seasons since the stadium move has also been 11th.

So much for "next level" following the move to the bowl.

[WHU(Exeter)]

I noticed the spin they put into one of their 'appeasing' club messages a couple months back, about how they had managed us to the longest consecutive spell in the Premiership. (conveniently omitting the fact that that spell would have been longer, had they not got us relegated themselves early on). 

With the relegations at Brum as well, they must be on for the record of relegating clubs from the top flight, since the introduction of the football league.

Supported for decades, so used to the hurt of relegations, but this time (and the last), even that pales, as the overriding ' downer' to all of it will still be there in David Sullivan.

[Far Cough UKunt]

https://www.hammers.news/news/nuno-espi ... ing-staff/

Posted this in the Nuno thread, which apparently explains why Nuno didn't bring his own staff in, although as you say wouldn't be surprised if Sullivan had a word as well.  In some ways yes it's nice to keep loyal servants to the club on board but not if they can't do it at the highest level.  Pottsy and Mark Robson as nice as they may be obviously aren't cutting it at first team level, certainly not under Nuno.  It goes back again to Harry and the way he made some hard decisions that were unpopular at the time, like letting Ronnie Boyce go and bringing in Jimmy Hampson.  Yes, as always with West Ham it could and should have been handled better, but you can't deny Hampson had a positive effect at the club.  Same with Bilic and Dicksy, sometimes sentimentality gets in the way and again there was a massive difference with Moyes when he had Alan Irvine next to him.  Best example ever Brian Clough and Peter Taylor.  

Bertie Mee and Don Howe.

[Come On You Irons]

This is my strong suspicion Scorch.

As usual a long diatribe ( I find it cathartic and need to get back to my old ways in 2026 afyer being accused of being concise and to the point the other day, I was deeply offended by that )

So… here’s my latest stream of semi consciousness:

Sullivan cannot so easily apply his first instinct, which is “cost containment”,  to things like player fees and recruiting managers ( its market driven and highly competitive ). He tries but generally speaking he has to authorise many transfers the managers he appoints request or recruitment teams suggest?. He will veto the ones where he thinks its too much for an unproven or young player ( many of these go on to be very good players). Point is its done from a financial standpoint mostly, that in his mind trumps data analysis of the player, potential of longer term increase in player value. Sullivan is just like so many accountants in businesses who look no further than the current financial year and cost containment.  To his credit and trying to be balanced ( grits teeth) , he and the board have spent a lot over the last 5 years relative to many clubs (albeit its all against future revenues and using loans but most clubs do that). And its not like Brown and the Cearns, Reg Pratt and co in that sense. They seemed far more frugal even in the days before huge TV revenues and other sources of funding. They do share one thing in common though, none of them invested any of their own money aside from an initial purchase of shares. 

Sullivan, Brady, Gold’s biggest failure has been this lack of vision, long term planning, football knowledge and insight caused by the singular focus or prioritisation of anything that could increase the value of their shares asap. Its the reason they bought West Ham of course. To make a lot of money in a relatively short period by getting the OS, selling UP. The TV and ticket revenue and selling or mortgaging every fixed asset was leveraged to the max to borrow against and has financed everything. 

And the last 3-5 years is their crowning failure. Im guessing West Ham’s recruitment and spending has been the most appalling and disasterous in Europe’s top divisions? Perhaps only Man Utd’s is worse?

But, finally getting back to the point ( huzzah they all shout if they have not already stabbed their eyes out ) where he ( Sullivan ) focuses a lot is the peripheral or other costs like agents fees, terms and conditions of transfers like payment terms, loans / loans to buy if possible, add ons, anything to keep costs down in the financial year without thinking too much, if at all, about the longer term impacts. It causes us to miss out on many players, collapses deals as other clubs DOFs and owners walk away from Sullivan’s derisory offers, “moving goalposts” last minute and generally it has meant anyone coming into scoutimg and recruitment at West Ham has been severely handicapped by our owner. 

For all the above reasons, Im convinced Sullivan would have told Nuno that he would not be hiring his backroom team. Sully would, like an “accountant on steriods”, have been livid about gaving to have already hired and paid off 2 teams of backroom staff in one accounting period.  Not once did he consider or undrrstand that a manager is usually only as good as the team that has always been with him.

Sullivan cannot help himself, his insecurities, ego, need for control, narcissism, whatever it is, just doesnt allow him to listen, change etc. He knows best and its why he retains veto power over everything and why he is now back controlling everything. He never wanted DOFs, Steidten etc, its why he only half implemented it and made it unclear who was recruiting. Its why we had committee based recruitment with everyone getting picks of players.

To conclude ( anyone who has got this far , i have rhe national number of the samaritans if you WHOmail me ) and we all know this, nothing can get ever really change or get better long term while Sullivan owns us.

NO MORE BS ( not my posts that BS will continue. So thank you all for indulging me. Alf takes another drag on crack pipe) 

Bore off Sir Alf.

[Sir Alf]

This is my strong suspicion Scorch.

As usual a long diatribe ( I find it cathartic and need to get back to my old ways in 2026 afyer being accused of being concise and to the point the other day, I was deeply offended by that )

So… here’s my latest stream of semi consciousness:

Sullivan cannot so easily apply his first instinct, which is “cost containment”,  to things like player fees and recruiting managers ( its market driven and highly competitive ). He tries but generally speaking he has to authorise many transfers the managers he appoints request or recruitment teams suggest?. He will veto the ones where he thinks its too much for an unproven or young player ( many of these go on to be very good players). Point is its done from a financial standpoint mostly, that in his mind trumps data analysis of the player, potential of longer term increase in player value. Sullivan is just like so many accountants in businesses who look no further than the current financial year and cost containment.  To his credit and trying to be balanced ( grits teeth) , he and the board have spent a lot over the last 5 years relative to many clubs (albeit its all against future revenues and using loans but most clubs do that). And its not like Brown and the Cearns, Reg Pratt and co in that sense. They seemed far more frugal even in the days before huge TV revenues and other sources of funding. They do share one thing in common though, none of them invested any of their own money aside from an initial purchase of shares. 

Sullivan, Brady, Gold’s biggest failure has been this lack of vision, long term planning, football knowledge and insight caused by the singular focus or prioritisation of anything that could increase the value of their shares asap. Its the reason they bought West Ham of course. To make a lot of money in a relatively short period by getting the OS, selling UP. The TV and ticket revenue and selling or mortgaging every fixed asset was leveraged to the max to borrow against and has financed everything. 

And the last 3-5 years is their crowning failure. Im guessing West Ham’s recruitment and spending has been the most appalling and disasterous in Europe’s top divisions? Perhaps only Man Utd’s is worse?

But, finally getting back to the point ( huzzah they all shout if they have not already stabbed their eyes out ) where he ( Sullivan ) focuses a lot is the peripheral or other costs like agents fees, terms and conditions of transfers like payment terms, loans / loans to buy if possible, add ons, anything to keep costs down in the financial year without thinking too much, if at all, about the longer term impacts. It causes us to miss out on many players, collapses deals as other clubs DOFs and owners walk away from Sullivan’s derisory offers, “moving goalposts” last minute and generally it has meant anyone coming into scoutimg and recruitment at West Ham has been severely handicapped by our owner. 

For all the above reasons, Im convinced Sullivan would have told Nuno that he would not be hiring his backroom team. Sully would, like an “accountant on steriods”, have been livid about gaving to have already hired and paid off 2 teams of backroom staff in one accounting period.  Not once did he consider or undrrstand that a manager is usually only as good as the team that has always been with him.

Sullivan cannot help himself, his insecurities, ego, need for control, narcissism, whatever it is, just doesnt allow him to listen, change etc. He knows best and its why he retains veto power over everything and why he is now back controlling everything. He never wanted DOFs, Steidten etc, its why he only half implemented it and made it unclear who was recruiting. Its why we had committee based recruitment with everyone getting picks of players.

To conclude ( anyone who has got this far , i have rhe national number of the samaritans if you WHOmail me ) and we all know this, nothing can get ever really change or get better long term while Sullivan owns us.

NO MORE BS ( not my posts that BS will continue. So thank you all for indulging me. Alf takes another drag on crack pipe) 

[zico]

https://www.hammers.news/news/nuno-espi ... ing-staff/

Posted this in the Nuno thread, which apparently explains why Nuno didn't bring his own staff in, although as you say wouldn't be surprised if Sullivan had a word as well.  In some ways yes it's nice to keep loyal servants to the club on board but not if they can't do it at the highest level.  Pottsy and Mark Robson as nice as they may be obviously aren't cutting it at first team level, certainly not under Nuno.  It goes back again to Harry and the way he made some hard decisions that were unpopular at the time, like letting Ronnie Boyce go and bringing in Jimmy Hampson.  Yes, as always with West Ham it could and should have been handled better, but you can't deny Hampson had a positive effect at the club.  Same with Bilic and Dicksy, sometimes sentimentality gets in the way and again there was a massive difference with Moyes when he had Alan Irvine next to him.  Best example ever Brian Clough and Peter Taylor.  

[Sarge]

Whats remarkable is how we went down with those players! Fucking Glenn Roeder!!! Should have been push for champions league not relegation. Another terrible appointment.

Especially after finishing 7th the previous season.  Like him or loathe him it also shows how good Harry was at man management in many ways, on how he dealt with Di Canio.  It also shows the value of getting your backroom team right, which is something I think Nuno has got wrong.  Roeder had Paul Goddard as his Assistant and as good a player Sarge was he had no real experience as far as I know in coaching and didn't do an awful lot after.  He always reminded me a bit of Phil Neal at Graham Taylor's side, a bit of a nodding dog.

Awwwww Yes (in the style of the Churchill insurance ads) 

[theaxeman]

Whats remarkable is how we went down with those players! Fucking Glenn Roeder!!! Should have been push for champions league not relegation. Another terrible appointment.

Especially after finishing 7th the previous season.  Like him or loathe him it also shows how good Harry was at man management in many ways, on how he dealt with Di Canio.  It also shows the value of getting your backroom team right, which is something I think Nuno has got wrong.  Roeder had Paul Goddard as his Assistant and as good a player Sarge was he had no real experience as far as I know in coaching and didn't do an awful lot after.  He always reminded me a bit of Phil Neal at Graham Taylor's side, a bit of a nodding dog.

The uncomfortable truth is that Harry was brilliant for us. Watched some great football and some tremendous players. Of course you can find fault as there were plenty.
I definitely think it's a huge problem Nuno hasn't got his team behind him. Potts and Robson, good West Ham people that they are, just don't have what's needed at this level in my opinion.