Premier league - worlds best league.

[twoleftfeet]

Is it?

5-2
5-2
3-0
1-1
1-1

impressive set of results over 2 evenings.

whoops forgot the 1-0 Liverpool result. 

[stubbo-admin]

I actually agree with this. English football has become very pragmatic over the years. The more the game moves forward with analytics, data and tactical optimisation, the more controlled and sometimes boring it becomes to watch.

Of course there are still some great matches, but when two top teams face each other it often turns into a very cautious game with lots of possession recycling and very little risk-taking.....

It feels like individual flair is slowly being replaced by systems and structure. The era of more open, expressive football seems to be fading a bit unfortunately.

Honestly, out of the big leagues these days I often enjoy watching La Liga and Bundesliga games the most from the top four leagues — they still tend to produce more open matches.

Welcome to the board Fabio!

[El Scorchio]

Agree. When you get too absorbed by data and stats and probabilities to win by any means it leads to stifling low risk regimented one dimensional football.

Funny really- it's exactly the same sort of thing Pulis and Allardyce and their ilk were reviled for doing 20 years ago and it was called agricultural anti football because of who they were and what clubs they were managing.

Now Arteta is doing exactly the same at a club like Arsenal, it's visionary, genius, and a blueprint to be marvelled at and imitated. Fucking ridiculous double standards

[FabioGoaliGreen]

I actually agree with this. English football has become very pragmatic over the years. The more the game moves forward with analytics, data and tactical optimisation, the more controlled and sometimes boring it becomes to watch.

Of course there are still some great matches, but when two top teams face each other it often turns into a very cautious game with lots of possession recycling and very little risk-taking.....

It feels like individual flair is slowly being replaced by systems and structure. The era of more open, expressive football seems to be fading a bit unfortunately.

Honestly, out of the big leagues these days I often enjoy watching La Liga and Bundesliga games the most from the top four leagues — they still tend to produce more open matches.

[Jean-Luc Paul Goddard]

Oh do fuck off. I explained perfectly well why your "theory" was full of shit. You got way more of a contribution than you deserve, you muppet.

[threesixty]

If more English teams reach the final more than any other country why haven’t they won it more? Statistically they should right? 

For fuck's sake, 360. 2 of the finals were all-English. They can't both win, can they? Out of the 7 English finalists only one lost to a foreign team (Liverpool, both times to Real Madrid). English teams have not done worse than should be expected, by any measure.

There's just nothing here that can be argued about. The only teams who haven't done better than PL teams are those few who are richer than them. Money talks. Not style of play. It's that fucking simple.

 

 

Money talks not style of play…

ok.. thanks for your contribution to the discussion. Very enlightening!

[threesixty]

"When I watched PSG last season the ball was just a magnet to their feet. The passing and movement was just streets ahead of any team I’d seen that season"

until they got battered in the final of the world club cup by that English team from West London

 

 

Yeah that was unexpected. And I think there has been a drop off in PSG generally since they won the title. Not sure how serious that tournament was taken though. Lot of football played that season. 

[Takashi Miike]

"When I watched PSG last season the ball was just a magnet to their feet. The passing and movement was just streets ahead of any team I’d seen that season"

until they got battered in the final of the world club cup by that English team from West London

[Jean-Luc Paul Goddard]

If more English teams reach the final more than any other country why haven’t they won it more? Statistically they should right? 

For fuck's sake, 360. 2 of the finals were all-English. They can't both win, can they? Out of the 7 English finalists only one lost to a foreign team (Liverpool, both times to Real Madrid). English teams have not done worse than should be expected, by any measure.

There's just nothing here that can be argued about. The only teams who haven't done better than PL teams are those few who are richer than them. Money talks. Not style of play. It's that fucking simple.

[threesixty]

In their respective leagues Bayern and PSG do not really have another team that is a consistent threat. In La Liga Barca and RM only have one another as a consistent threat.

The PL is different in that respect and the extra level of competitiveness takes its toll on a team the more so at the climax of a season’s work.

It will never happen but just imagine our top teams swapping places with say Barca and Bayern, thus Arsenal to Germany and Man City to Spain. Would a punter back either Barca or Bayern to win the P?

 

 

I think that’s a good point. General fatigue possibly towards the latter stages considering how physical our league is. 

the other side of it is that “iron sharpens iron” and teams like PSG who historically didnt play any truly hard games until they got to the latter stages of the CL ended up falling short until last year. 

When I watched PSG last season the ball was just a magnet to their feet. The passing and movement was just streets ahead of any team I’d seen that season. But would that work week in week out in the PL? I don’t know? Pep sort of did that for a while and then just stopped doing it and went with Halland and a more direct approach. 

it’s interesting to me how the styles in the different leagues are and how that effects the final games in the CL. 

[threesixty]

This is typical of you, 360. You say something utterly stupid and when someone points out why then you don't own up that you made a mistake or exaggerated things, you double down on it.

No-one is not comprehending your posts properly. 

Your quote: "I think prem teams will always find it hard to win the CL"
Reality: PL teams won 3 out of the last 7.

Your quote: "PL teams just get unstuck at the latter stages as the style of play in Spain etc just suits CL style more."
Reality: More PL teams in the final than any other nation, by a large margin. No Spanish team except Real Madrid has reached the final in 10 years.

Your quote: "The point is at the very top of the football tree the playing style matters as well as the money. The PL has far more money than all the other leagues yet has won it 3 times in that period and 2 of those finals were two PL sides competing against each other."
Reality: According to Deloitte there are 4 clubs in the world who are richer than any PL team. These 4 are the ONLY non-English clubs to have reached the final in the last 10 years.

 

 

If more English teams reach the final more than any other country why haven’t they won it more? Statistically they should right? 

So what is the issue then? The PL teams are just unlucky to not win the title considering they seemingly batter everyone else, have more money to pay top players etc, they should have won it more right?

my point is simply the PL has a different style of play than the CL and it shows at the latter stages. it’s a theory. And I think that these last 2 years specifically have shown an even bigger change in the way some of the top teams in the PL are approaching things which I feel will exacerbate the issue. But we will see, I could easily be wrong and they go on to win this season. 

I don’t mind an argument to prove my otherwise, and your stats are also compelling. But how do you explain our lack of success in winning? Or do you think we have just the right amount of success in this competition? 

[,]

In their respective leagues Bayern and PSG do not really have another team that is a consistent threat. In La Liga Barca and RM only have one another as a consistent threat.

The PL is different in that respect and the extra level of competitiveness takes its toll on a team the more so at the climax of a season’s work.

It will never happen but just imagine our top teams swapping places with say Barca and Bayern, thus Arsenal to Germany and Man City to Spain. Would a punter back either Barca or Bayern to win the P?

[Takashi Miike]

the top Spanish teams have about half a dozen tough league games a season, the comparison is pointless as they're playing in a pub league

[Jean-Luc Paul Goddard]

This is typical of you, 360. You say something utterly stupid and when someone points out why then you don't own up that you made a mistake or exaggerated things, you double down on it.

No-one is not comprehending your posts properly. 

Your quote: "I think prem teams will always find it hard to win the CL"
Reality: PL teams won 3 out of the last 7.

Your quote: "PL teams just get unstuck at the latter stages as the style of play in Spain etc just suits CL style more."
Reality: More PL teams in the final than any other nation, by a large margin. No Spanish team except Real Madrid has reached the final in 10 years.

Your quote: "The point is at the very top of the football tree the playing style matters as well as the money. The PL has far more money than all the other leagues yet has won it 3 times in that period and 2 of those finals were two PL sides competing against each other."
Reality: According to Deloitte there are 4 clubs in the world who are richer than any PL team. These 4 are the ONLY non-English clubs to have reached the final in the last 10 years.

[threesixty]

Feels like so many of you didn’t go to school or something. Comprehension is poor!

I said specifically Champions League. In the last 10 years, Spanish teams have won it 6 times! The PL has far more money than all the other leagues yet has won it 3 times in that period and 2 of those finals were two PL sides competing against each other. 

Man City just about got past Inter with a wonder goal from Rodri. 

The point is at the very top of the football tree the playing style matters as well as the money. 

More interestingly, in the last few years we are seeing a PL that is more reliant on set plays, long throws, crowding out keepers at corners etc. tactics that work very well in the PL but I don’t think translate at the highest level. 

I also think peps team has changed its style and no longer dominates the possession with players like silva and aguero in the same way. I think he’s adapted to make City more competitive in the PL but it doesn’t look like it’s working at the highest level in the CL. 

For Chelsea, city, Liverpool and arsenal to have such disappointing results at the same time says a lot. It can’t be just a coincidence. 

[Mike Oxsaw]

You're overlooking one key, non-football driven absolute fact here. Red.

The two most successful (and well marketed) teams in English football both wear red.

Red in East & South East Asia is an auspicious, lucky colour, ingrained into their culture. In their eyes - the eyes of people willing to hand over good money, Liverpool & Manchester United were/are successful because they wear red, not because they have the best players, managers and recruitment processes. Those follow (naturally) because they wear red. They wear red and that's the end of it.

If you've spent time in any of those regions (over and above going on a package tour/running through during your gap year/being a sex tourist) you'd appreciate this.

Once Sky tapped into that (red-driven) market, the money train (for the PL) set off and shows no sign of slowing. Arsenal, you ask? Never interested in east & south east Asia.

Cardiff is it? Play traditionally in blue, called the Bluebirds and their (new) Malaysian owner wanted them to change to a red strip for "luck and prosperity". Wasn't quite rich or powerful enough to pull that one off though.

Perhaps someone will be kind enough to remind me/us what other successful CL teams play in red - could shoot my argument down in flames; I'm having one of those days .

[Takashi Miike]

360, you don't half talk a load of clueless old fanny.

English teams have won 3 out of the last 7 Champions League finals, with 3 different teams!

English teams have had 3 winners and 4 runners up in the last 8 finals. No other nation had more than 3 finalists in these years.

In 2019 and 2021 both finals were all English, as were the Europa League finals in 2019 and 2025.

In direct contrast to the absolute bollocks you came out with, English teams have actually dominated Europe in recent years.

even us and those spurs mugs managed to win a european trophy, 360 is a clown

[John Drake]

If you looked at the last 10 years, then the conclusion would be that Spanish clubs dominated the Champions League with 6 wins to England’s 3. 

The Premier League generates far higher revenues than any other league – almost twice as much as La Liga – but the money is spread around more widely. For that reason, the Premier League has financial strength in depth and is always likely to dominate the Europa League and Conference. 

A recent phenomenon is that English clubs have been knocked from the top of the rich clubs list with Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern and PSG all generating more revenues than the best performing English club (Liverpool in 2025). I wonder if the top English clubs will be looking for a larger slice of EPL pie in order to address this?

[Jean-Luc Paul Goddard]

360, you don't half talk a load of clueless old fanny.

English teams have won 3 out of the last 7 Champions League finals, with 3 different teams!

English teams have had 3 winners and 4 runners up in the last 8 finals. No other nation had more than 3 finalists in these years.

In 2019 and 2021 both finals were all English, as were the Europa League finals in 2019 and 2025.

In direct contrast to the absolute bollocks you came out with, English teams have actually dominated Europe in recent years.

[threesixty]

I think prem teams will always find it hard to win the CL because the league is tuned differently to the other leagues.  It’s a more physical league here so you have to build a team that can deal with that week in week out. Then after that you’ve got to deal with teams who play more technically in their own leagues and a ref in the CL who enforces a more technical game. 

So PL teams just get unstuck at the latter stages as the style of play in Spain etc just suits CL style more. 

maybe Liverpool had a perfect balance with Klopp when Mane/Salah was running things because it sort of had everything. Speed, technical ability and hard tackles etc. but that takes its toll. 

Just look at the crap refs are allowing in the PL with corners these days. No way is anyone getting away with that in the CL at higher levels. 

The thing is the PL “product” sells internationally,  maybe because it is that different to the other European leagues in terms of intensity etc. But at the moment I think the style of the league will mean the money spent at the big clubs will not turn into consistent CL success. 

 

[Jean-Luc Paul Goddard]

Just had a look at Valverde's goals. That's a hat trick any player would be extremely proud of. Great finishes.

Yeah, I watched the game. Great goals, especially considering that he's not usually much of a goal scorer. He actually doubled his tally for this season with that hat trick, having only scored 3 in 38 games until last night.

[El Scorchio]

Just had a look at Valverde's goals. That's a hat trick any player would be extremely proud of. Great finishes.

[BoleynGone]

Interesting that Monaco,7th in Ligue 1 beat PSG last Friday having lost to them in the Qulaifying Round.
More interesting is PSG got their weekends game postponed against Nantes to concentrate on the CL. I am surprised that Ligue 1 just didn't give them a 5-0 victory. How that was allowed is surely against UEFA rules, thought you could only postpone a game due to mass injuries, not even a dodgy Lasagne could get you off the hook. Even more suprised that Chelsea didn't protest,maybe they have let it lie to the actual result of the first game and then get their lawyers protesting like mad.

[Mike Oxsaw]

The Premier league has descended into Wrestlemania and we’ve seen Bournemouth & Brentford recently who have the long throw as their chief means of attack
Watched a bit of PSG last night & it was a pleasure to see some proper skilful attacking football 
I hope they win the Champions league

The PL has all gone a bit Harlem Globetrotters, really, and anyone who pulls out the odd (and increasingly rare)  exciting PL match as some sort of proof that I am wrong rather emphasises my point.

But it serves it's purpose in syphoning money for the media & sponsors out of East & South-East Asia.

These are markets that still believe Man United are managed by Fergie and will continue to sweep all before them. The media have about 10 years to maximise this before the locals cotton on.

Local fans have no say, and that has long been the case.

[BoleynGone]

Kinda agree, might take a 3rd team though.
If we can beat a set piece team like Brentford then we can beat 3rd team Arsenal for sure.
 

[Fauxstralian]

The Premier league has descended into Wrestlemania and we’ve seen Bournemouth & Brentford recently who have the long throw as their chief means of attack
Watched a bit of PSG last night & it was a pleasure to see some proper skilful attacking football 
I hope they win the Champions league