The Official Politics Thread (enter at your own risk)

[Come On You Irons]

There. Resident WHO political commentators and gurus can knock yourselves out in here and conduct your endless bickering. All other threads will be locked.

[ironsofcanada]

BillyJenningsBoots

 

 

Sorry, mate

Are you naive enough to believe the government honestly tells you exactly what they are doing with your money?  It's political suicide. If you believe it has and will never abuse surveilence power...I guess you might be. 

But just in this specific area - your taxes have risen to pay for the increased cost of the NHS, you said asylum seekers add to the cost of the NHS.  You therefore are paying more taxes because of it - by your statements. 


Please fill yer boots arguing that the UK should be paying more to support asylum seekers because...its the right thing to do. Its a postion.  But please don't pretend there isn't a cost and that the cost is not carried by the taxpayer. 

Have a good Sunday. 

[goose]

 

"Not all" = some are. Correct?

So you your self have established that there is a cost to the NHS from asylum seekers. 

You pay for that.  Case closed.

Nope! because the question was do I pay more tax due to increased Asylum seekers costs and I dont as I said in fact my tax has actually been reduced by 2%.

Case closed!

Reduced by 2% since when exactly? And which tax are we talking about?

[BillyJenningsBoots]

They are not all asylum seekers and not all asylum seekers are claiming dole either its housing them and keeping them that costs.
 

"Not all" = some are. Correct?

So you your self have established that there is a cost to the NHS from asylum seekers. 

You pay for that.  Case closed.

Nope! because the question was do I pay more tax due to increased Asylum seekers costs and I dont as I said in fact my tax has actually been reduced by 2%.

Case closed!

[BillyJenningsBoots]

1) billy you’ve just pointed out that illegal immigration does impact you and the tax you pay.
2) any guesses what impact a growing population has on the NHS.

No I havent I do not pay more tax because of asylum seekers. When did the govt increases taxes specifically to cover asylum costs? Answer : they didnt.

Youve changed your question to has it impacted how its distributed. Answer : yes by something like 0.1 of 1%.

You think asylum seekers are responsible for the £9bn increase in NHS costs do you?

Of course you pay more tax. You’ve been shown how the tax burden has risen with inflation, you’ve also got the chancellor outlining the pressures it causes on tax revenue.

nobody said £9bn is solely down to immigration, but it’s a simple fact that more people = more higher cost of running the NHS.

 

 

What are you not getting I do not pay more tax and neither do you.

So costs rise, the Chancellor wants more funds to pay for everything what did she do - she increased Employers NI. Did that increase my tax - no! Did she say due to the increased costs of Asylum seekers we are increasing Ers NI or was it due to the rising costs of the NHS, Education etc and the overall budget defecit left by the previous govt? Yes she did say that.

Oh and that tax budget includes Asylum seeker costs which is less that 0.3% of the total. So is materially negligible and was not the reason Ers NI was increased. 

In fact inspite of the rising costs of the NHS and Education etc to this country my tax has fallen in the last 12 months as the prev govt reduced Ees NI by 2%age points as an election sweetener. Sorry forgot about that FACT!

[ironsofcanada]

They are not all asylum seekers and not all asylum seekers are claiming dole either its housing them and keeping them that costs.

"Not all" = some are. Correct?

So you your self have established that there is a cost to the NHS from asylum seekers. 

You pay for that.  Case closed.

[BillyJenningsBoots]

I think the increase in NHS costs are a bigger impact on UK tax dont you?

 

I was first permanently in the UK as a student (before my family stuff came through), I paid a fee every year to access the NHS.  I also had to guarantee funding (scholarships primarly but beyond that I had to literally get a bank statement from my mother and have her sign a legal statement that she would support me in an emergency) so I would not access other government services - essentially the dole. 

The fees I paid decreased the need for your taxes to fund the NHS, assuming you were paying taxes then.  

Do you believe all people entering the UK now support your governement with similar fees?

If not you government has to look elsewhere, like your taxes or borrowing (the interest increases your taxes) or printing money (inflation - your money buys less).

Well done you! The 100s of thousands of migrants that come in on workers and student visa pay tax and also contribute positively to this country.

They are not all asylum seekers and not all asylum seekers are claiming dole either its housing them and keeping them that costs.

So not sure what your point is!

[goose]

*immigration not inflation 

[goose]

My tax rate has not changed because of Asylum costs and neither has the amount of tax I pay.

Whether that is PAYE,VAT fuel duty or the price of pint its all tax and it has not increased directly because of asylum seekers.

You really think that asylum costs are a major factor of pressure on this or previous govts to increase taxes it amounts to less than half a percent of the total budget. I think the increase in NHS costs are a bigger impact on UK tax dont you?

BTW the net migration figures show that asylum seekers are a small percentage of the overall net migration numbers that are mostly workers via visas and students. The largest number in recent years were from India and not Palestine or Syria.

1) billy you’ve just pointed out that illegal immigration does impact you and the tax you pay.
2) any guesses what impact a growing population has on the NHS.

No I havent I do not pay more tax because of asylum seekers. When did the govt increases taxes specifically to cover asylum costs? Answer : they didnt.

Youve changed your question to has it impacted how its distributed. Answer : yes by something like 0.1 of 1%.

You think asylum seekers are responsible for the £9bn increase in NHS costs do you?

Of course you pay more tax. You’ve been shown how the tax burden has risen with inflation, you’ve also got the chancellor outlining the pressures it causes on tax revenue.

nobody said £9bn is solely down to immigration, but it’s a simple fact that more people = more higher cost of running the NHS.

[ironsofcanada]

I think the increase in NHS costs are a bigger impact on UK tax dont you?

 

 

I was first permanently in the UK as a student (before my family stuff came through), I paid a fee every year to access the NHS.  I also had to guarantee funding (scholarships primarly but beyond that I had to literally get a bank statement from my mother and have her sign a legal statement that she would support me in an emergency) so I would not access other government services - essentially the dole. 

The fees I paid decreased the need for your taxes to fund the NHS, assuming you were paying taxes then.  

Do you believe all people entering the UK now support your governement with similar fees?

If not you government has to look elsewhere, like your taxes or borrowing (the interest increases your taxes) or printing money (inflation - your money buys less).

[BillyJenningsBoots]

 

Let's naively pretend that tax is the only way you pay for government spending, for the sake of simplicity...

...so your tax rate has not increased at any level - ever. 

Be honest. 

My tax rate has not changed because of Asylum costs and neither has the amount of tax I pay.

Whether that is PAYE,VAT fuel duty or the price of pint its all tax and it has not increased directly because of asylum seekers.

You really think that asylum costs are a major factor of pressure on this or previous govts to increase taxes it amounts to less than half a percent of the total budget. I think the increase in NHS costs are a bigger impact on UK tax dont you?

BTW the net migration figures show that asylum seekers are a small percentage of the overall net migration numbers that are mostly workers via visas and students. The largest number in recent years were from India and not Palestine or Syria.

1) billy you’ve just pointed out that illegal immigration does impact you and the tax you pay.
2) any guesses what impact a growing population has on the NHS.

No I havent I do not pay more tax because of asylum seekers. When did the govt increases taxes specifically to cover asylum costs? Answer : they didnt.

Youve changed your question to has it impacted how its distributed. Answer : yes by something like 0.1 of 1%.

You think asylum seekers are responsible for the £9bn increase in NHS costs do you?

[goose]

No I dont pay more tax... you clearly dont know unserstand how the tax system works. My same tax will be distributed differently maybe but I wont pay more because of it!

 

Let's naively pretend that tax is the only way you pay for government spending, for the sake of simplicity...

...so your tax rate has not increased at any level - ever. 

Be honest. 

My tax rate has not changed because of Asylum costs and neither has the amount of tax I pay.

Whether that is PAYE,VAT fuel duty or the price of pint its all tax and it has not increased directly because of asylum seekers.

You really think that asylum costs are a major factor of pressure on this or previous govts to increase taxes it amounts to less than half a percent of the total budget. I think the increase in NHS costs are a bigger impact on UK tax dont you?

BTW the net migration figures show that asylum seekers are a small percentage of the overall net migration numbers that are mostly workers via visas and students. The largest number in recent years were from India and not Palestine or Syria.

1) billy you’ve just pointed out that illegal immigration does impact you and the tax you pay.
2) any guesses what impact a growing population has on the NHS.

[BillyJenningsBoots]

No I dont pay more tax... you clearly dont know unserstand how the tax system works. My same tax will be distributed differently maybe but I wont pay more because of it!

 

Let's naively pretend that tax is the only way you pay for government spending, for the sake of simplicity...

...so your tax rate has not increased at any level - ever. 

Be honest. 

My tax rate has not changed because of Asylum costs and neither has the amount of tax I pay.

Whether that is PAYE,VAT fuel duty or the price of pint its all tax and it has not increased directly because of asylum seekers.

You really think that asylum costs are a major factor of pressure on this or previous govts to increase taxes it amounts to less than half a percent of the total budget. I think the increase in NHS costs are a bigger impact on UK tax dont you?

BTW the net migration figures show that asylum seekers are a small percentage of the overall net migration numbers that are mostly workers via visas and students. The largest number in recent years were from India and not Palestine or Syria.

[ironsofcanada]

No I dont pay more tax... you clearly dont know unserstand how the tax system works. My same tax will be distributed differently maybe but I wont pay more because of it!

 

 

Let's naively pretend that tax is the only way you pay for government spending, for the sake of simplicity...

...so your tax rate has not increased at any level - ever. 

Be honest. 

[goose]

I dont pay any additional tax specifically to cover for undocumented immgrants especially as they cant claim benefits and only the cost of housing them maybe a consideration, as I say it really has no direct impact on me

You’ve just pointed out that it does impact you. 
You absolutely do pay additional tax because of it.

No I dont pay more tax... you clearly dont know unserstand how the tax system works. My same tax will be distributed differently maybe but I wont pay more because of it!

Last ten years the tax burden of uk tax payers has gone up from 32% of GDP to 37% of GDP.

Unless you have a magic tax code, you do pay more tax.

Even if you didn’t (you do), the distribution of tax revenue still has a direct impact on your life.

[BillyJenningsBoots]

 

Of course you are impacted by immigration number on a daily basis. Unless you don’t pay tax or use any of the countries infrastructure.

I dont pay any additional tax specifically to cover for undocumented immgrants especially as they cant claim benefits and only the cost of housing them maybe a consideration, as I say it really has no direct impact on me

You’ve just pointed out that it does impact you. 
You absolutely do pay additional tax because of it.

No I dont pay more tax... you clearly dont know unserstand how the tax system works. My same tax will be distributed differently maybe but I wont pay more because of it!

[BillyJenningsBoots]

You could have made your 'point' without reverting to a load of infantile shit. You chose not to.

Well you probably wouldnt have understood that either!

[goose]

Here you go billy:

IntroductionRachel Reeves’s recent audit of public spending identified a range of in-year spending pressures facing the new government. One of the largest pressures was for costs relating to asylum and illegal migration, with an estimated £6.4 billion of pressures on day-to-day spending in 2024–25.

 https://ifs.org.uk/articles/home-office ... overspends

[only1billybonds]

You could have made your 'point' without reverting to a load of infantile shit. You chose not to.

[ironsofcanada]

I dont pay any additional tax specifically to cover for undocumented immgrants especially as they cant claim benefits and only the cost of housing them maybe a consideration, as I say it really has no direct impact on me

 

 

This seems to stem from the incredibly naive view that the use of government money (inaccurate phrase) - every little bit of it - is somehow magically divorced from the economic lives of its citizens. 

[goose]

Critical thinking lol.... my original point was about Nutsacks overdramatising the situation in the UK we are not in a post apocalyptic state. I am not affected on a daily basis by immigration numbers  nor do I thankfully live in Russia, North Korea or the United States of Musk and have enough faith in the UK legal system thanks.

No one is interested in my data. Even if they were most of Apples services are still end to encypted even without ADP. My data and yours held on other clouds are requestable by govt so I see no difference.

 

Of course you are impacted by immigration number on a daily basis. Unless you don’t pay tax or use any of the countries infrastructure.

I dont pay any additional tax specifically to cover for undocumented immgrants especially as they cant claim benefits and only the cost of housing them maybe a consideration, as I say it really has no direct impact on me

You’ve just pointed out that it does impact you. 
You absolutely do pay additional tax because of it.

[BillyJenningsBoots]

 

The second part is an argument you can make. 

The problem is your lack of critical thinking and ignorance, willful or not, of the history of the first part wholly undermines your use of it.


You have a remember, the group in power often gets to decide what is "wrong".  If you happen to agree with the current definition, life is great.  But we know what is "wrong" changes. 

You seem to have strong feelings about Elon Musk and Trump, now imagine them  deciding whether "you, yourself" are doing something wrong.  Do you still want to expand the powers?

And again if don't think governments have not abused an increase of surveillance powers, you are ignorant of the history.

Critical thinking lol.... my original point was about Nutsacks overdramatising the situation in the UK we are not in a post apocalyptic state. I am not affected on a daily basis by immigration numbers  nor do I thankfully live in Russia, North Korea or the United States of Musk and have enough faith in the UK legal system thanks.

No one is interested in my data. Even if they were most of Apples services are still end to encypted even without ADP. My data and yours held on other clouds are requestable by govt so I see no difference.

 

Of course you are impacted by immigration number on a daily basis. Unless you don’t pay tax or use any of the countries infrastructure.

I dont pay any additional tax specifically to cover for undocumented immgrants especially as they cant claim benefits and only the cost of housing them maybe a consideration, as I say it really has no direct impact on me

[BillyJenningsBoots]

BJB.

Despite knowing NOTHING about me or my circumstances, you have claimed that I live the life of a peasant who endures squalor and a life under constant threat from others. 

This is the clearest indication that you are not to be taken seriously. You have made your mind up and because we have opposing views you have invented a load of nonsense. Now get yaself in the bath son, it's back to school in the morning for you.

Oh dear really! do you take everything anyone says literally!   I dont pretend to know anything about you. But as you are clearly not living as I described you are probably pretty much fine too which was the whole point!!!!

[only1billybonds]

BJB.

Despite knowing NOTHING about me or my circumstances, you have claimed that I live the life of a peasant who endures squalor and a life under constant threat from others. 

This is the clearest indication that you are not to be taken seriously. You have made your mind up and because we have opposing views you have invented a load of nonsense. Now get yaself in the bath son, it's back to school in the morning for you.

[goose]

If you are not doing anything wrong whats the problem.
Id rather forego that right if it means criminal and terroist organisations cant hide behind it!

 

The second part is an argument you can make. 

The problem is your lack of critical thinking and ignorance, willful or not, of the history of the first part wholly undermines your use of it.


You have a remember, the group in power often gets to decide what is "wrong".  If you happen to agree with the current definition, life is great.  But we know what is "wrong" changes. 

You seem to have strong feelings about Elon Musk and Trump, now imagine them  deciding whether "you, yourself" are doing something wrong.  Do you still want to expand the powers?

And again if don't think governments have not abused an increase of surveillance powers, you are ignorant of the history.

Critical thinking lol.... my original point was about Nutsacks overdramatising the situation in the UK we are not in a post apocalyptic state. I am not affected on a daily basis by immigration numbers  nor do I thankfully live in Russia, North Korea or the United States of Musk and have enough faith in the UK legal system thanks.

No one is interested in my data. Even if they were most of Apples services are still end to encypted even without ADP. My data and yours held on other clouds are requestable by govt so I see no difference.

 

 

Of course you are impacted by immigration number on a daily basis. Unless you don’t pay tax or use any of the countries infrastructure.

[ironsofcanada]

Critical thinking lol.... my original point was about Nutsacks overdramatising the situation in the UK we are not in a post apocalyptic state. I am not affected on a daily basis by immigration numbers  nor do I thankfully live in Russia, North Korea or the United States of Musk and have enough faith in the UK legal system thanks.

No one is interested in my data. Even if they were most of Apples services are still end to encypted even without ADP. My data and yours held on other clouds are requestable by govt so I see no difference.

 

 

Yes - critical thinking. The ability to think beyond yourself only in the here and now.  It is paramount in building a society that deals with problems on an ongoing basis.


All your statements are about  being content in your current situation.  And being upset to the point of name-calling with people who question it.


The UK legal system said it was okay to hold a slave for a good period.  Laws change for good and bad. Would you have been such a NIMBY then if you weren't a slave or held a slave? Ie. It's not affecting me so it's fine.